[PGT] Coyotes 5 Flames ZERO

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Here's the truth about this team:

Gaudreau and Monahan are uninterested this season. Gaudreau whines every game. I think they had too much fame too fast and it got to their heads.

Brouwer was bad before he came and he's still bad now. $4.5M for a guy who puts up 40 pts, has no upside, and isn't dominant physically? Bad signing and he's even softer than I thought. I hope he's exposed in the expansion draft.

Chiasson is not tough at all and has no skill. I think his NHL days are done. That guy being in the top 9 explains why the Flames have no chance this season. How is Bennett supposed to succeed playing with this guy? GG should surround a young player with talented vets who protect him and can play with him. Bennett's development is being hindered by bad coaching. He was a beast when he entered the league under Hartley.

Elliot was never a true #1 and will never be. He is small in his net and mentally fragile.

Wideman is not an NHL D but he's playing with Brodie. I feel really bad for Brodie this season.

Giordano should have a better handle on the dressing room. No captain should settle for this type of inconsistent play throughout an entire season.

The 3M line is the only positive this season. It's only because they outwork everyone. The rest of the team should learn from this.

I know people like Stajan as a person but he's terrible. I can't wait for the team to move on.

It's sad the Engelland is probably gone after this season. I can't imagine how soft this team will be without him.

Does this sound like a playoff team?

they are a bubble team...exactly where they are in the standings

[Tailgator]

I get the GG hate (since he's awful at his job), but how is it Sigalet doesn't take way more heat? Goalies keep getting worse under him.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Gulutzan getting canned isn't going to happen. He hasn't been close to being terrible enough to warrant that treatment.

With that being said, I do think that he just isn't the right coach for this team either. It seems to me that the Flames' place in the standings has a lot more to do with how terrible the Western Conference has been this season.

There are 2 recurring issues I have with this team:
1) They have no compete at times. No resiliency. No 'fight-back' to them.
2) To many players regressing - the most important players to boot.

It makes the on-ice product rather boring to watch, and it does become rather difficult to cheer for a team that just doesn't work hard.

There is absolutely no way that Treliving is going to make a move this season on the coaching front - and Gulutzan has at least a half-season of rope next year as well (though he probably has to really bomb to hang himself next season too).

I just think that this team needs a task-master. A coach that BOTH motivates well (like Hartley did) and can instill a strong system that makes use of the personnel on the roster effectively (what Gulutzan is supposed to be about).

Flames were an "inconsistent-effort" team until Darryl was hired. They were an inconsistent team after he bumped himself upstairs and replaced himself with Playfair. The Flames remained an "inconsistent-effort" team right until about the halfway point of the 1st season of the rebuild under Hartley. Now it seems that it is 'back' now.

I don't much agree with Feaster's tenure, but he nailed it perfectly when he said: "This organization has a disease". It was this inconsistency that starts permeating throughout the lineup that I absolutely can't stand. Flames fans stood up and applauded that hard-working team at the Dome during a few losses that first rebuild year. Why? Because it was so damn refreshing seeing a team that competes so hard all the time.

I can't say the same of Flames under Gulutzan. This team just doesn't compete, and I am getting alarmed at how some players just aren't improving under his tenure - players that I thought the Flames would need to take steps forward if they were ever going to compete down the road.

Gulutzan is safe though - he has to completely face-plant the rest of the way through if Treliving is going to make a change in the off-season. I fully expect him back - though that all changes if Treliving isn't re-signed, as I am assuming the new GM would want a new coach (just like Treliving did - he was never keen on Hartley to begin with, and even - surprisingly at the time - didn't extend Ward in the AHL who was thought of very favorably then). I would be shocked if Treliving isn't back for a few more seasons however.

Useless rant, I guess. Just wish this organization had a motivator AND someone with structure at the same time as a coach for once. Give me the guy who knows how to get the team to play hard if I had to choose between the two, however. At least the games are more enjoyable to watch, and the team is easier to cheer for.

[Barnet Flame]

So, my only hope of seeing the Flames live this season is if they make the playoffs.

After watching this, I don't feel too confident.

When everything goes as wrong as this, all over the ice, I'd usually put that on the coaches. It is their job to have the team prepared and 'up for it'.

But how do you do that when you have 5 days off with no practice.

We can talk about being lucky we had a gimme against a crap team, but that is wrong. We would have been better off coming back from the break losing to an elite team from the East.

I don't care who you are playing, if you are not and cannot prepare before a game, every team in this league is likely to beat you.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by dino7c

they are a bubble team...exactly where they are in the standings

Yeah, I really don't understand all the outrage? This team is exactly where I thought they'd be this year. Possible playoff team that may or may not squeak in. Even if they make it this year they're not doing damage.

Some people need to lose the hysterics and get a grip on reality. Sure they might not be as exciting but they're definitely a better team. Let's let them continue to develop before whining about how this may or may not be a playoff team.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It sure looked like they competed because your expectations were lower. They got blown out plenty then too

You really need to research it before posting with this much certainty.

Flames lost twice by 5 goals or more that season (and they were back to back):

0-6 at Phoenix
0-5 at St. Louis

That's definitely not plenty.

They also had 22 losses that year by only a single goal. I am sure there were a few 2-goal losses because of an empty net as well. They tied an NHL record, IIRC. If that doesn't show you that they competed hard - especially given where they were at in the rebuild - then I am at a loss at what could possibly convince you.

Flames were very much a team that competed hard, especially at that halfway point of the season. That is when they started receiving a tonne of accolades around the league for how hard-working they were, and how much of a treat to watch they were because of it. After that season, Aaron Ward came out and said that the Flames were going to make the playoffs.

Oh, and speaking of which - the Flames lost by 5 or more goals the following season how many times?

Zero.

Your post made me question my memory, and I had to look it up. I distinctly remember those years as being very impressive for NOT getting blown out in games like I fully expected them to. Flames have been shut-out 4x this season, and this is their second loss of 5 goals or more this year.

[nemanja2306]

What a pathetic coach.

Gaudreau/Bennett make a mistake, bench them.

Wideman makes a mistake after mistake, give him 20+ minutes.

Pathetic.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Gulutzan getting canned isn't going to happen. He hasn't been close to being terrible enough to warrant that treatment.

With that being said, I do think that he just isn't the right coach for this team either. It seems to me that the Flames' place in the standings has a lot more to do with how terrible the Western Conference has been this season.

There are 2 recurring issues I have with this team:
1) They have no compete at times. No resiliency. No 'fight-back' to them.
2) To many players regressing - the most important players to boot.

It makes the on-ice product rather boring to watch, and it does become rather difficult to cheer for a team that just doesn't work hard.

There is absolutely no way that Treliving is going to make a move this season on the coaching front - and Gulutzan has at least a half-season of rope next year as well (though he probably has to really bomb to hang himself next season too).

I just think that this team needs a task-master. A coach that BOTH motivates well (like Hartley did) and can instill a strong system that makes use of the personnel on the roster effectively (what Gulutzan is supposed to be about).

Flames were an "inconsistent-effort" team until Darryl was hired. They were an inconsistent team after he bumped himself upstairs and replaced himself with Playfair. The Flames remained an "inconsistent-effort" team right until about the halfway point of the 1st season of the rebuild under Hartley. Now it seems that it is 'back' now.

I don't much agree with Feaster's tenure, but he nailed it perfectly when he said: "This organization has a disease". It was this inconsistency that starts permeating throughout the lineup that I absolutely can't stand. Flames fans stood up and applauded that hard-working team at the Dome during a few losses that first rebuild year. Why? Because it was so damn refreshing seeing a team that competes so hard all the time.

I can't say the same of Flames under Gulutzan. This team just doesn't compete, and I am getting alarmed at how some players just aren't improving under his tenure - players that I thought the Flames would need to take steps forward if they were ever going to compete down the road.

Gulutzan is safe though - he has to completely face-plant the rest of the way through if Treliving is going to make a change in the off-season. I fully expect him back - though that all changes if Treliving isn't re-signed, as I am assuming the new GM would want a new coach (just like Treliving did - he was never keen on Hartley to begin with, and even - surprisingly at the time - didn't extend Ward in the AHL who was thought of very favorably then). I would be shocked if Treliving isn't back for a few more seasons however.

Useless rant, I guess. Just wish this organization had a motivator AND someone with structure at the same time as a coach for once. Give me the guy who knows how to get the team to play hard if I had to choose between the two, however. At least the games are more enjoyable to watch, and the team is easier to cheer for.

Your second point is key. The fact that most of our key players are struggling is a sign that it's the coaching. It's too big to be a coincidence.

Gulutzan sucks. He's a terrible coach and he needs to go asap, especially since Julien is now available.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Your second point is key. The fact that most of our key players are struggling is a sign that it's the coaching. It's too big to be a coincidence.

Gulutzan sucks. He's a terrible coach and he needs to go asap, especially since Julien is now available.

As a fan, season ticket holder why wouldn't you make this happen now.

Drop mic.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Yeah, I really don't understand all the outrage? This team is exactly where I thought they'd be this year. Possible playoff team that may or may not squeak in. Even if they make it this year they're not doing damage.

Some people need to lose the hysterics and get a grip on reality. Sure they might not be as exciting but they're definitely a better team. Let's let them continue to develop before whining about how this may or may not be a playoff team.

They're a better team for sure, and yes it's hard to be super critical when they're still in the mix. It's helped that the Kings and Preds have been very meh, compared to expectations.

However, I don't see an identity at all, and that annoys me. The Flames are like a box of chocolates...

Giordano is my favorite, and he's been a rock defensively, but if Iggy faced criticism for a "country club" locker room, there should be questions about this guy too. Gulutzan doesn't talk to them after games, so I sure as hell hope Gio is doing something other than providing the same sound bytes to the Calgary Herald.

And on the topic of leadership, again I must question Brouwer. Did he even play last night? Chiasson (yes, that Chiasson) has been more impressive and tenacious. I notice him on the forecheck, along the boards, and often in scrums. He seems like he cares, most of the time. Brouwer cared the one time that meanie bumped him into the net.

Generally I don't get much joy or entertainment out of watching this season's Flames (I'm fascinated by many OOT games, however). I'm still hopeful for the playoffs, but disappointed at how often they've seemed to just give up.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

When everything goes as wrong as this, all over the ice, I'd usually put that on the coaches. It is their job to have the team prepared and 'up for it'.

But how do you do that when you have 5 days off with no practice.

I don't care who you are playing, if you are not and cannot prepare before a game, every team in this league is likely to beat you.

the break is stupid. not just for the flames, but for every team. how can you justify having a week where you can't practice or prepare your team? especially in the latter part of the season. it's idiotic.

flames coaches and players deserve blame, but the break deserves more.

you could argue the coaches did have the team ready to play, going by the first period.
but then the heart went out of them the last two periods. that to me is more on the players and on ice leadership.

[Jeho360]

Well..
I am from Rocky Mountain House, and I am lucky to catch a game a year. By the time I overpay for tickets, pay fuel, babysitter, food and drink, it makes for quite an expensive night. Not to mention getting home at 2AM and having to work today..

Its quite frustrating to spend that kind of money and get an on ice performance like that..

I'm sure ill be back next year though, maybe ill be lucky enough to catch a goal at least.

[Toonage]

In regards to the coaching change discussion, I agree that he isn't likely to be replaced anytime soon. That being said, if he does go it will be because Treliving is let go too. Thats about the only way they can save face on it.

[The Familia]

Same #### from a bunch of useless, heartless plugs. My disdain for Johnny, Monahan, and Bennett grows. My buddy was on the same flight as these three last week heading down to Mexico. Nice to see they left behind their work ethic. So tired of these three over paid 'skill' players. I would totally package them up for some nice pieces if anyone is dumb enough to accept.

[VladtheImpaler]

To develop on C4L's "rant" above, the only success this team has had in 35+ years was the only time in the last 35+ years that it had a top-end coach ***. To a medium or large extent, every team seems to take on the personality of its coach. That can be mitigated to some extent, if there is an exceptionally strong personality in the room (e.g. Messier or Hextall, say, though ironically both of them were under Keenan, so I wonder how much of that was Keenan bringing it out in them???). GG seems to be a cerebral guy, but to me he seems to have all the personality of a paper towel, and so we see a team take on that personality too, showing up some days, and not others. And this has been the story of the franchise for almost 4 decades now, going through the motions re-(pro-)gressing to mediocrity, except for when Darryl Sutter was the coach ***. Having been through this from the beginning, I am disheartened by our magical ability to always hire the wrong guy. We missed on Boudreau (for reasons I am not privvy to), we are going to miss on Julien, we never had a shot at Babcock... honestly, and this is despair talking, I think we have pray LAK fire Sutter, and he is willing to give this another go-round... Of course, we could get lucky, and find some diamond in the rough. I am so hopeless, I would be willing to have a go with Tortorella or even welcome Keenan back.



*** with honourable mention to the extended stretch under Keenan when they were the best team in the NHL until injuries/cap got them, and the "immaculate season" under Hartley.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Same #### from a bunch of useless, heartless plugs. My disdain for Johnny, Monahan, and Bennett grows. My buddy was on the same flight as these three last week heading down to Mexico. Nice to see they left behind their work ethic. So tired of these three over paid 'skill' players. I would totally package them up for some nice pieces if anyone is dumb enough to accept.

bit of a overreaction. they're kids, really. nothing most other players haven't done. you just hope they grow out of it, that's all. the majority of players do. (heck, most of us grow out of it, too.)

[Erick Estrada]

This is the worst I have felt about this organization since pre-Darryl Sutter Flames. Gulutzan is a smart guy and has a sound system but he's not a motivator and doesn't command respect in the locker room. It's been evident for a long time as there have been more listless, low effort losses this season than there were under Hartley's duration as while his teams were a train wreck defensively the team played hard most nights win or lose. Take away the Backlund line and if this season was erased from my memory I would be better for it. At this point you have to wonder if Gaudreau requests a trade as he's played most of the season like a guy that doesn't want to be here or at least doesn't want to play for this coach. I can't remember a season where there were so few positives. Haven't enjoyed watching them at all and star players have been so bad that there's just nothing to be excited about going into next season. This season has been a phenomenal waste of time.

It's pretty obvious that ownership is going to wait until the end of the season to determine Treliving's fate. If they miss the playoffs I'm having a hard time believing they are going to be handing him another three year deal. You have bad coach hire, ongoing goaltending issues, top prospects stalling in their development and a star player in Gaudreau that is playing like a guy that wants to be traded. In the face of empty seats and fan apathy setting in I'm of the belief he's probably not going to be the GM after this season.

[OldDutch]

25/30 teams are .500 or better and the Flames are barely above .500

This is not a good team despite fighting for a playoff spot. Almost every team in the leauge especially in the west is in it right now.

Not good, not bad just very mediocre. Add in getting bombed out a hand full of times in the last month and they are not anywhere where they need to be. Can't fully blame the coach, but it is pretty obvious he's not the guy.

No relief from the draft either as a 10th in the west in a weak draft is landing us the next Chucko.

Will be interesting off season, hopefully involves getting a coach better matched to the players.

[HotHotHeat]

Not making a roster or management change after this loss will tell the fans that losing 5-0 to a bottom team is acceptable.

Your move, Brian.

[Erick Estrada]

Should anyone really be surprised a coach with a .520 career winning percentage has his new team at a .518 winning percentage? Really? I don't think you can fault Gulutzan as he's been exactly as advertised. In fact the Flames have essentially turned into Dallas Stars under Gulutzan in season three. This is what he is and this is how his teams perform. Shame on the GM for getting sucked into hiring a guy based on his interview over body of work.