Living in the United States

[HockeyIlliterate]

I have lived in Canada, I have lived in the US, and I have traveled around the world, spending months in various countries.

I think that, when it comes to analyzing life in another country--particularly in a country that one has very little "real world" experience in---one essentially sees what they want to see.

And if that means pointing out all of the dirt and grime of one place while ignoring the dust, haze, and detritus of their hometown, well, that's just the way it goes.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

I have lived in Canada, I have lived in the US, and I have traveled around the world, spending months in various countries.

I think that, when it comes to analyzing life in another country--particularly in a country that one has very little "real world" experience in---one essentially sees what they want to see.

And if that means pointing out all of the dirt and grime of one place while ignoring the dust, haze, and detritus of their hometown, well, that's just the way it goes.

So...you're fairly local but you've been around, and you've seen the streets that I'm walking down?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No. I said nothing remotely similar to that. Jesus ####ing Christ, stop building straw men for ten seconds and listen to what I'm saying. The question isn't whether they should have to pay tax on the income more than once. It's what sorts of people are benefiting from the system without contributing to it. That was his only point. I'm now stuck explaining it for the second post in a row, not out of any commitment to his argument but more as a matter of basic intellectual honesty, because you're making a deliberate attempt to avoid understanding.

FML, people are frustrating. Do you not understand how bad it makes you look to double down on your own misinterpretation here? You're not saving face, you're losing it twice over.

Heh, Both rich/poor and hard working/lazy people fall in to this catagory.

[Kiran403]

I don't think I would move to the US. I like visiting there but living there seems a lot more complicated than Canada. Some of their cities are great and it would be nice to be able to dodge winter but overall I don't think it's for me.

-There's too much gun crime. Regardless of if it's a gun issue or a mental health issue, it still happens a lot and it can happen anywhere to anyone.
-Healthcare seems like a hassle. If you're lucky to work for a good company you're ok but if you get laid off or your company has a ####ty plan then it's expensive and full of stress.
-Race is definitely an issue, especially if you are a minority like me. I've met a lot of really nice people there but I've also experienced varying degrees of racism from subtle to straight up in your face style. It's not like I've never had it happen to me in Canada but it seems much deeper and institutionalized there. I wouldn't want my kids to have to deal with it.
-Corporate influence on all aspects of life from healthcare to food. Ever take some time to compare similar food products in Canada and the US? There's lots of additives, ingredients and processes for food production that are allowed there but aren't allowed here for health reasons. Same with pharmaceuticals. Doctors are really quick to prescribe drugs there for everything and it seems a bit out of hand.
-Cost of education
-I find a lot of Americans don't know/don't care about anything other than America and that would get frustrating after a while. Also, the amount of people that don't know about their own country, government, policies etc but could rattle off sports stats or entertainment stuff with no problem is odd. The fact that the highest paid state job in many states is the head coach of the state college football team makes me question what they value as important.
-The amount of religion there.
-I think America's best days are behind it. It will always be a superpower but I think it took a real step back after the financial crisis in 2008. There are lots of other countries now that do democracy good enough or better than them.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Heh, Both rich/poor and hard working/lazy people fall in to this catagory.

Rube can speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that was his whole point - that and the same attitude should apply in both cases.

[Tyler]

Great place to visit. Always happy to come home though.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Rube can speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that was his whole point - that and the same attitude should apply in both cases.

Pretty much, but it's kind of hilarious to watch the wealthier members of society flip out when you suggest as much. I was also using the term "trust fund kid" colloquially and kind of thought that was obvious, but I guess not.

[Table 5]

A few random thoughts from someone who lived in the US for a decade (and snagged himself a Yankee wife) and has now come back to Canada:

The US is a culturally richer, and much more interesting, place than Canada. For better or worse.

I've never met a people who can be so intelligent, yet so ignorant, at the same time. There are some amazingly smart people in that country...who have no idea what goes on outside of it.

The US has an unmatched entrepreneurial energy. People are not afraid to take risks and dream big. It's infectious and I miss it.

If you are rich, I have no idea why you wouldn't have a residence in NYC or LA. I think Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis are great livable mid-sized city alternatives. Chicago is fantastic (but the crime there is a little nuts). I think San Francisco is overrated and overpriced these days (but no matter what, please don't call it San Fran).

For the average person, the things that affect basic quality of life (Education, Health Care, Safety, Childcare, Social programs) are much more reasonable and accessible in Canada. The more dependants you have, the bigger this gap.

That social safety net that Canada offers I think is extremely important for piece of mind. Even if you are well off in the US, the wrong medical issues can cripple you financially. What you save on that car or tv, you'll be paying for in health bills, schooling, and taxes. I paid $400 in health insurance a month as a healthy 20-something man who never had to use the system....I know friends who pay $2k/month for their families insurance. I know families who pay 15-20k/yearly to send their kids to K-12 private school because the public system is a non-starter in many cities.

The places most Canadians would want to live (NY, California) are fairly heavily taxed...especially when it comes to property taxes. Paying 10-20k in property taxes is the norm on a 400-500k house in the NY area.

The programs and maternity leave offered to new moms in Canada is infinitely more humane for everyone.

TLDR: If you're moneyed, single/childless, or career is important to you...the US is the place to be. If you have a family, are elderly, or have any health issues...Canada will for the most part give you a much better, if less interesting, quality of life.

[GGG]

What do you mean by Culturally richer? Is that by being more diverse or just older?

[DiracSpike]

I cant speak for him but the US is interesting in that it has pockets N-S and E-W, unlike Canada which is pretty much just a linear E-W.

The USA has New England, the South, Appalachia, Texas, Creoles in Louisiana, and Mexican influence in Arizona and New Mexico just to name a few cultural enclaves. Canada basically has the Maritimes, Quebec, and then everyone else.

[4X4]

You had a good point, until you lumped Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC into one. Are you sure YOU'RE Canadian?

[Jordan!]

I love it

-Amazing weather 8 months a year
-Affordable housing
-Have had no trouble finding a job

I've lived in almost every corner of the Phoenix valley, if you have questions let me know.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Table 5

A few random thoughts from someone who lived in the US for a decade (and snagged himself a Yankee wife) and has now come back to Canada:

The US is a culturally richer, and much more interesting, place than Canada. For better or worse.

I've never met a people who can be so intelligent, yet so ignorant, at the same time. There are some amazingly smart people in that country...who have no idea what goes on outside of it.

The US has an unmatched entrepreneurial energy. People are not afraid to take risks and dream big. It's infectious and I miss it.

If you are rich, I have no idea why you wouldn't have a residence in NYC or LA. I think Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis are great livable mid-sized city alternatives. Chicago is fantastic (but the crime there is a little nuts). I think San Francisco is overrated and overpriced these days (but no matter what, please don't call it San Fran).

For the average person, the things that affect basic quality of life (Education, Health Care, Safety, Childcare, Social programs) are much more reasonable and accessible in Canada. The more dependants you have, the bigger this gap.

That social safety net that Canada offers I think is extremely important for piece of mind. Even if you are well off in the US, the wrong medical issues can cripple you financially. What you save on that car or tv, you'll be paying for in health bills, schooling, and taxes. I paid $400 in health insurance a month as a healthy 20-something man who never had to use the system....I know friends who pay $2k/month for their families insurance. I know families who pay 15-20k/yearly to send their kids to K-12 private school because the public system is a non-starter in many cities.

The places most Canadians would want to live (NY, California) are fairly heavily taxed...especially when it comes to property taxes. Paying 10-20k in property taxes is the norm on a 400-500k house in the NY area.

The programs and maternity leave offered to new moms in Canada is infinitely more humane for everyone.

TLDR: If you're moneyed, single/childless, or career is important to you...the US is the place to be. If you have a family, are elderly, or have any health issues...Canada will for the most part give you a much better, if less interesting, quality of life.

Jeez, they must have a lot of Spendshis running the show there.

You're right, the lack of a real social safety net is a massive problem. The lower taxation federally and in most states is offset by costs of healthcare, good quality education, local taxes and other things. One of the most shocking things is the lack of a paid family leave. That's just nuts.

I like to think of Canada as a blander, yet much more functional America.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If you are rich, I have no idea why you wouldn't have a residence in NYC or LA. I think Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis are great livable mid-sized city alternatives. Chicago is fantastic (but the crime there is a little nuts). I think San Francisco is overrated and overpriced these days (but no matter what, please don't call it San Fran).

No kidding. 'Frisco' all the way.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Locke

No kidding. 'Frisco' all the way.

Both San Francisco and Dallas residents would freak on you for that, from what I gather locals just like “The City by the Bay”, my uncle lived there for 35 years and called it “The City” and sometimes "Fog City"

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Jeez, they must have a lot of Spendshis running the show there.

You're right, the lack of a real social safety net is a massive problem. The lower taxation federally and in most states is offset by costs of healthcare, good quality education, local taxes and other things. One of the most shocking things is the lack of a paid family leave. That's just nuts.

I like to think of Canada as a blander, yet much more functional America.

Property tax is a reflection how the tax structure is different. Illinois has the highest effective combined state and local tax rates in the US, at about 14.5%, with a state tax of only 3.75%.
The National average is 10.7% combined.

*Based on median US household income

But if I understand correctly, some portion of local (property) taxes are a deductible expense from income tax???

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If you are rich, I have no idea why you wouldn't have a residence in NYC or LA. I think Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis are great livable mid-sized city alternatives. Chicago is fantastic (but the crime there is a little nuts). I think San Francisco is overrated and overpriced these days (but no matter what, please don't call it San Fran).

If I was 10-15 years younger, then those cities would be attractive. But, I think the charm in the US is in the little cities that aren't household names in Canada. There are all sorts of cool, little cities in the mid-Atlantic states that are great places to raise families. There are burgeoning food, culture, craft beverage scenes, etc in many of these cities, and New York is a cheap, non stop flight away. DC is an easy drive for a night or two for me to satisfy any big city needs. Great beach areas around here like the outer banks. The Blue Ridge mountains are incredibly scenic with all sorts of cool little towns, wineries, breweries, etc.

My kids are 3rd and 5th grade and so far my experience with public schools has been fantastic. Housing, property tax, etc are all very affordable.
We did pick our house based on the school district though, and that's something you definitely don't have to think as much about in Canada.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I like to think of Canada as a blander, yet much more functional America.

Yeah, sounds about right. It also seems to be truer with every passing year.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

attractive. But, I think the charm in the US is in the little cities that aren't household names in Canada. There are all sorts of cool, little cities in the mid-Atlantic states that are great places to raise families. There are burgeoning food, culture, craft beverage scenes, etc in many of these cities, and New York is a cheap, non stop flight away.

You're absolutely right, there are a ton of great smaller places in America as well. The one area I haven't got a chance to explore that much is the SE, which I would love to at some point. Nashville especially seems like a pretty great mid-sized city.

Although I do find that a lot of smaller towns/cities in the states have some pretty severe drug problems that nobody ever seems to talk about.

[Drummer]

I wonder what our country would be like if we had the same population as the US. Thinking about that - our transportation infrastructure would certainly not be as good.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I wonder what our country would be like if we had the same population as the US. Thinking about that - our transportation infrastructure would certainly not be as good.

I personally think it would be better. Having a lot of people in a smaller space is what allows for places to spend more money on things like subways, commuter train lines etc.

Being so scattered about is also why we have some pretty crappy roads in this country compared to other first world nations.