If the Flames can't find a trade partner for Wideman, should they buy him out?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Well, is he wrong? I don't recall any time last year where the Oilers got 5 breakaways

And I guarantee it had nothing to do with Hartley's non existent defensive system. Or maybe it was, because we'd never have possession long enough to give up that many breakaways in a game.

I also don't recall any games last year where Wideman was on the top pairing.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think there is as big of a gap between those statements as you are implying.

I think Gulutzen was simplyy defending his systems so people wouldn't interpret it as: breakaways - therefore the system sucks.

Whether you call it players not executing the system well, or just call it puck management mistakes, you're basically saying the same thing: players made mistakes and didn't play well.

There is no rift here.

Seriously? There is a huge difference.

Wideman believes that once the system is ironed out and the players are executing that he'll stop making those mistakes. Do you actually believe that?

Gulutzan is leaning towards him just making his usual blunders with the puck to give up easy goals. Something that he's done regardless of what system he plays. Perhaps why he's been benched 2 games now.

Wideman sounds like he's not holding himself accountable once again.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't know how you could not blame those breakaways on bad mistakes. Each one involved a guy tripping, losing the puck, or making a bad pass.

There is some fault on the system (because it's new, so they're likely still overthinking plays since it hasn't become second nature) but I personally saw Wideman make no less than 5 boneheaded mistake all by himself per game.

If he can't own even part of his bad play, then he might as well make sure he chose a comfortable chair for the press box.

Mistakes like that can happen to any team on any night by any player. The issue here is that it was multiple mistakes of this nature in the same game and I tend to blame the defensemen more than the system on this particular night. Wideman has always been a little frosty with the media so I would take anything he says to guys like Francis with a grain of salt.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Seriously? There is a huge difference.

Wideman believes that once the system is ironed out and the players are executing that he'll stop making those mistakes. Do you actually believe that?

Gulutzan is leaning towards him just making his usual blunders with the puck to give up easy goals. Something that he's done regardless of what system he plays. Perhaps why he's been benched 2 games now.

Wideman sounds like he's not holding himself accountable once again.

You're making an assumption and an extrapolation as to what Wideman believes, and then asking me if I believe it (what you imagined).

Both comments (Wideman's and Gulutzan's) are simple snippets. They are basically saying the same thing a bit differently. Of course Wideman - as the person who screwed up - offered a bit of a reason for his errors (I'm still learning the system), while Gulutzan, the owner of the system, simply called them errors.

Seriously, there is nothing to see here.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're making an assumption and an extrapolation as to what Wideman believes, and then asking me if I believe it (what you imagined).

Both comments (Wideman's and Gulutzan's) are simple snippets. They are basically saying the same thing a bit differently. Of course Wideman - as the person who screwed up - offered a bit of a reason for his errors (I'm still learning the system), while Gulutzan, the owner of the system, simply called them errors.

Seriously, there is nothing to see here.

Then why has Wideman gone from top pairing to 2 straight benchings in the span of 2 games? Because Wideman needs more time to learn this system than 22 year old Brett Kulak? Or Jokipakka? Hamilton?

There are very few coaches or players who are going to bluntly say what they are thinking to the media (e.g John Tortorella, Sean Avery, Bryzgalov). But when tensions get high they start hinting at things to the media and making very obvious implications. You don't make such vague statements to the media unless you WANT them to read into what's being said between the lines. They do enough of that on their own when nothing is implied.

I find it amusing how much you want these direct quotes to be dismissed and swept under the rug.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Then why has Wideman gone from top pairing to 2 straight benchings in the span of 2 games? Because Wideman needs more time to learn this system than 22 year old Brett Kulak? Or Jokipakka? Hamilton?

There are very few coaches or players who are going to bluntly say what they are thinking to the media (e.g John Tortorella, Sean Avery, Bryzgalov). But when tensions get high they start hinting at things to the media and making very obvious implications. You don't make such vague statements to the media unless you WANT them to read into what's being said between the lines. They do enough of that on their own when nothing is implied.

I find it amusing how much you want these direct quotes to be dismissed and swept under the rug.

You obviously got an ax to grind. To a man with a hammer, every thing is a nail.

Is it possible what you're suggesting? Yes, duly noted. Unfortunately you refuse to believe the notion that there's little to see here, so unless we're willing to throw out objectivity and reason, I see no point in discussing possibilities with someone only wanting to support their ax grinding mission.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

You obviously got an ax to grind. To a man with a hammer, every thing is a nail.

Is it possible what you're suggesting? Yes, duly noted. Unfortunately you refuse to believe the notion that there's little to see here, so unless we're willing to throw out objectivity and reason, I see no point in discussing possibilities with someone only wanting to support their ax grinding mission.

Wait, does he have an axe or a hammer?

Either way he sounds fairly industrious. Working with your hands is a lost art.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Wait, does he have an axe or a hammer?

Either way he sounds fairly industrious. Working with your hands is a lost art.

Why not use both at the same time?

[northcrunk]

Wideman needs to be gone. It sucks paying so much for someone who can barely skate to the level of a junior player anymore. I've played beer leagues with guys who are faster than he is and his hockey sense isn't helping him. He gets beat over and over.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

You can try to paint me as a biased Wideman hater all you want. Try to find a single past quote of me being harsh on Wideman. I've been one of his biggest supporters on this forum including his ref incident and during his good pre-season showing.

The guy has a crap attitude and I'm over it.

[killer_carlson]

I don't blame Wideman for being ticked off. I don't blame Glug for saying it's not the system.

Time will tell if Wideman is the player he thinks he is and fans hope he is. Time will tell if it really is the system Glug has put in.

This will be Wideman's last season in Calgary. I don't see any value in fans running him out the door the way they did with Glencross.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I want a guy on my team that is ticked off for being a healthy scratch. If I was a vet, I would be mad as well. I don't care how angry he gets, as long as he remains a good teammate, practices hard, and when he gets inserted back into the lineup, plays well.

I would be disappointed as a coach if I bench a vet (or even a young guy) and he doesn't get ticked-off.

[CsInMyBlood]

I believe those breakaways were mainly a result of the Flames trying to play this new system.

Before game one, Gulutzan explained that a big part of the system was to defend in the offensive zone. Don't know how realistic that thought is when you are playing a team as fast as the Oilers looked.

[kyuss275]

An article like this was bound to come out sooner or later. I don't think there is any thing to take from Widemans comments or the coaches comments. The biggest thing is how he will respond if he ends up seeing a lot of pressbox time this season.

[northcrunk]

Wideman sucks Harambe balls.

[Badgers Nose]

"If the Flames can't find a trade partner for Wideman, should they buy him out?"

HAHA! "If."

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

"If the Flames can't find a trade partner for Wideman, should they buy him out?"

HAHA! "If."

Some posters thought that he was not only tradeable, but that he had relative trade value.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Some posters thought that he was not only tradeable, but that he had relative trade value.

He did. A little more than a year ago.

After his good season Flames might have got a pick or two for him if he would waive. At the time it seemed too low. We expected more playoff hockey after all and he could be useful...

I was one of the dopes that expected him to play up to his contract. Pretty bummed.

But now he is almost off the books. The hope is that he plays to keep his career alive...

More disappointment?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Some posters thought that he was not only tradeable, but that he had relative trade value.

Yes there were many posters the previous summer pointing to his Norris votes etc. I feel relatively certain the Flames tried to move him but there were no takers. Who knows what they were asking and it might be that they were greedy. But my guess is they would have taken anything as long as no salary retained. Would love to know what the best offer was if indeed there were talks. Sometimes the moves you don't make, good or bad, are the important ones.

If we had traded him with no salary retained, I suspect Russell may have been extended.

[GranteedEV]

Four games into the season, Dennis Wideman is the only Flame to score a power play goal.