Cycle Track Network One Year Old

[Fuzz]

You could look at the cordon count data:

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...don-Count.aspx

and see if it has decreased YOY

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...t-nov-2016.pdf

2014 times versus 2016 with the tracks installed.

Peak period time travel for 5th street: 6:00 to 6:10

12th avenue eastbound am peak: 5:40 to 7:10
12th avenue eastbound pm peak: 11:30 to 7:20

8th avenue eastbound am peak: 5:30 to 5:15
8th avenue westbound pm peak: 5:30 to 5:30

I think you'd have to consider there are a lot less people commuting downtown in 2016 than there were in 2014.

[Bigtime]

Good thing Fuzz gave us the link to the city page to check out that very thing:

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Zarley

The logical decision would have been to run north/south bike lanes along 1st and 8th Streets SW, which have lower traffic volumes and offer better connections to both Connaught and (in the case of 1st Street) Mission and the Elbow river pathway system. Also, 13th Avenue was initially chosen as the east/west link through the Beltline but this was abandoned without announcement.

Instead of this, they went with 5th Street, 12th Ave, and initially proposed another lane on Macleod which was wisely shot down by council. Obviously all of these are major vehicle commuter routes. Some people within the cyclist lobby in the city are intent of making a political statement rather than producing the best network possible. Had they chosen 1st, 8th, and 13th Avenue, the following things would have happened:
- Lower cost due to less signalized intersections
- We likely could have avoided the additional cost of even having a pilot project because there would have been minimal concern regarding traffic impact on these routes - the network would hence be ahead of the game
- Reduced opposition to future expansion of the network

The network we have is fine, but there are a few major issues that should have been foreseen:
- The idiotic lane jogs that occur along the west end of 12th Avenue
- The 5th Street lane ends abruptly at 17th, unable to continue into Cliff Bungalow thanks to the change from 1 way to 2 way traffic (would have been solved by using 1st Street with a connection to 2nd via Rouleauville Square)
- The lane on 8th Ave has resulted in a significant reduction in street parking availability (which is stupid because thanks to the extremely wide sidewalks on the west end of 8th, there is more than enough room for parking lanes and bike lanes on either side of the road if a few feet are ceded from the sidewalk)
.

1st Street SW was shot down because of businesses not wanting to give up parking and because there weren't lanes to give up. That's why 1st Street SE was proposed, because it has the capacity to handle it. But most figured that was just put in the proposal so they could take something away in order to justify the one they really wanted, which was 5th St. Heart of the Beltline, meaning more access for more people, easier.

8th St SW wasn't put in because they could get a cycle track put in as part of its redevelopment that wasn't tied to the Pilot Project, so adding it would have been actively fighting against the self-interest of the pro-bike planners. I honestly don't remember if one did make it in the end, certainly not as good as the 5th St underpass lane anyway.

13th Ave has problems as a commuter street, which didn't make it popular (doesn't have the priority that 12th and 11th do), and all the parking meant they'd be making their Green Belt into a commuter zone which wasn't the intent of the project. Similar to 1st St SE, 12th Ave had capacity so it was recommended. Unfortunately a lot of interests meant they had to give into a lot of demands which led to the ridiculous lane jogging that goes on. Parking is also the reason the 5th St track stops at 17th Ave. Can't take away parking. Especially with that Mission-Cliff Bungalow community association.

Basically they took the streets they were allowed to by the Roads people (lane kilometres and whatever else they track) and everything else had to keep the stakeholders happy (better let people get run over than take away a parking spot). So its all politics, which isn't pragmatic.

[Bigtime]

Write up pointing out some of the errors in the Manning Centre report and the challenge of simply looking at the tracks in a black and white way:

http://www.spuryyc.org/cycle-tracks-...itics-collide/

I thought about writing out all the problems with the Manning Centre report, but I decided that doing that would be a tedious read.

Instead, I wanted to use this report as a case study of the messy interface of politics and the scientific process, and I want to draw the following conclusion: Context matters. When someone makes a black and white argument about a transportation project, look at it with a very critical eye. Chances are they have simplified a complex idea past the point of usefulness.

To illustrate this, let’s look at two examples from the report that illustrate how when data is discussed with a political bent, clear and contextual discussion falls by the wayside.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

1st Street SW was shot down because of businesses not wanting to give up parking and because there weren't lanes to give up. That's why 1st Street SE was proposed, because it has the capacity to handle it. But most figured that was just put in the proposal so they could take something away in order to justify the one they really wanted, which was 5th St. Heart of the Beltline, meaning more access for more people, easier.

8th St SW wasn't put in because they could get a cycle track put in as part of its redevelopment that wasn't tied to the Pilot Project, so adding it would have been actively fighting against the self-interest of the pro-bike planners. I honestly don't remember if one did make it in the end, certainly not as good as the 5th St underpass lane anyway.

13th Ave has problems as a commuter street, which didn't make it popular (doesn't have the priority that 12th and 11th do), and all the parking meant they'd be making their Green Belt into a commuter zone which wasn't the intent of the project. Similar to 1st St SE, 12th Ave had capacity so it was recommended. Unfortunately a lot of interests meant they had to give into a lot of demands which led to the ridiculous lane jogging that goes on. Parking is also the reason the 5th St track stops at 17th Ave. Can't take away parking. Especially with that Mission-Cliff Bungalow community association.

Basically they took the streets they were allowed to by the Roads people (lane kilometres and whatever else they track) and everything else had to keep the stakeholders happy (better let people get run over than take away a parking spot). So its all politics, which isn't pragmatic.

Further:

I was deeply involved in a lot of those decisions and discussions with Stantec and the City staff that proposed the network:

A few key principles drove the network design - useful links to destinations, a dense enough grid of routes and minimizing traffic flow and parking disruption.

1st SW and 1st SE were considered on the east end North-South. The attraction of 1st SE over SW was it's one way, and thus only one traffic lane/parking lane, as opposed to two is needed to serve it. Can't do do a two way cycle track on a two way road for reasons that still escape me, but I believe it's complexity of turn movements. 1st street SE was a real and important part of the proposed network, but was just a bridge too far for many on Council, including the Mayor - more due to perception than any technical or real capacity constraint. It could have handled it with relatively minor traffic delay modelling showed.

8th Street - there is a raised bike lane component of the 8th street SW master plan. It's a road well under capacity overall south of the tracks. It may form an eventual route, at least between say 12th and 17th, if not through the underpass as well. that was tabled until later to see if 5th and 11th combined would work well enough.

12th. Many east west routes through Beltline were examined. Basically every single Avenue. 13th as a two way street, to create a track would have taken virtually 100% of the parking away west of 5th Street. For many of the heritage homes and small apartments along there, the street is the only parking they have. It also is a lot slower to cross main north south routes because of signal priority. This is why 12th was attractive - much better as a commuter route because of signal priority. It also has extra-wide carriageway which minimized parking disruption. The jog is slightly annoying, but through the pilot they figure they have a way to eliminate the jog and consolodate parking on one side. It's just expensive to do during the pilot phase, but that is what they intend to do and are recommending if turned permanent.

8th Avenue - there again was vigorous debate about this. Lots were pushing for 6th Avenue because it goes through the geographic centre of the CBD, but again traffic and transit disruption were huge concerns. Would have been a nightmare IMO. 8th still is pretty central and touches more destinations like the Core mall.

5th Street - 4th was a favourite for many - but again, 2 way in the Beltline. Lots of disruption to parking and key transit routes.

As for the connections at the end of routes. They will become better connected over time. There was just only so much that could be designed and implemented in such a short time. Even doing all these routes at once as they are was a pretty impossible task. The City staff did incredible work under almost impossible scrutiny.

Every single route was excruciatingly scrutinized, tested, weighed - what have you.

Is the network perfect? No. But in many ways it was an simultaneous exercise in finding the best routes and the least bad. It's very, very hard to retrofit streets with so many competing interests.

[Bigtime]

That's a lot of words to say you hate cars Bunk.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

That's a lot of words to say you hate cars Bunk.

It's funny. I'd say about 75% of the aggregate time of discussion planning the network was to figure out how the heck to disrupt cars as little as possible. That's probably being conservative.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Good thing Fuzz gave us the link to the city page to check out that very thing:

well fuzz is on my ignore list so...
i'm kidding.
those numbers are surprising to me. My commute time has been noticeably, much better than it was a couple of years ago. maybe it's because i'm more awesome now than i was two years ago.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Bunk

It's funny. I'd say about 75% of the aggregate time of discussion planning the network was to figure out how the heck to disrupt cars as little as possible. That's probably being conservative.

I know the car-hating was a joke, but I would think 75% of the time figuring out mitigating the issues for cars is just about right, given the numbers in that constituency and how this project would be viewed globally. As a driver unlikely to ever use the bike track, I consider it a success, based on the lack of disruption.

[Roughneck]

Council votes to make cycle track permanent.

Huzzah!

[Bill Bumface]

Anyone here use the Edmonton trail track or drive that way after work? They put in a new left turn lane and signal from the 5ave flyover onto memorial as part of the upgrades, and this also allowed for a bike signal. Every day I see left turners treating the double red light as a solid green. A cop needs to set up there and make a fortune.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Anyone here use the Edmonton trail track or drive that way after work? They put in a new left turn lane and signal from the 5ave flyover onto memorial as part of the upgrades, and this also allowed for a bike signal. Every day I see left turners treating the double red light as a solid green. A cop needs to set up there and make a fortune.

You could contact 311 to ask the roads dept. to put a "no left on red" sign. They will then tell you what is there is good enough. At least that was my experience at 7th st an 5th ave. ####ing roads dept.


Awesome news on the council decision!

[worth]

Gian-Carlo Carra ‏@gccarra 26 minutes ago
Here's a contribution to the history of #yycbike #CycleTrackNetwork. Very pleased w #yyccc

Spoiler!

Rob Taylor ‏@beltline_pres 19 minutes ago
. #YYCcc voted today to make cycle track permanent with this amendment ref #Beltline . #yycbike . @Beltline_cycle

Spoiler!

In a 10-4 vote, council decided to make the network permanent, spend $1.65 million (left over when the lanes came in under budget) for improvements including parking, transit and traffic issues, and not to spend any additional funds to make the current physical infrastructure permanent, unless improvements are required.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rack-permanent

[MrMastodonFarm]

Noticed Sean Chu voted no, I hope his personal cycle track data will be released.

[Flames0910]

Really glad they voted to make it permanent. Even moreso that it got through unscathed (i.e. not moving the 12th ave track to 10th, or cutting out a section on 8th ave as was proposed). Hopefully administration can improve connectivity and boost ridership numbers even further (personally I would love to see 8th street SW get some kind of cycling treatment).

Nice to see some of the more suburban councillors onside here — Diane Colley-Urquhart being a notable one, especially when the pilot was such a narrow vote.

(also, first time I've ever watched a council meeting. interesting to watch it all unfold )

[GGG]

I wrote to Urqhart after her early response that the cycle track didn't help suburban residents. Basicly saying we were able to use it for beakerhead and other bike rides to downtown with our family that we wouldn't consider doing otherwise. I'm glad to she see saw value in it.

I hope they finish of 12th ave all the way to the elbow pathway as the last two blocks is annoying with no good options for family bike rides.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by GGG

I wrote to Urqhart after her early response that the cycle track didn't help suburban residents. Basicly saying we were able to use it for beakerhead and other bike rides to downtown with our family that we wouldn't consider doing otherwise. I'm glad to she see saw value in it.

I hope they finish of 12th ave all the way to the elbow pathway as the last two blocks is annoying with no good options for family bike rides.

Yeah, that was a complete reversal. She actually praised the more "visionary" councillors, and said that now "the suburbs want in." I missed which connection she asked administration about (might be the same one you just mentioned), but they suggested that they might have something done as soon as next summer. Sounds like your letter helped

[Party Elephant]

I have nothing to add to this discussion except:

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You could contact 311 to ask the roads dept. to put a "no left on red" sign. They will then tell you what is there is good enough. At least that was my experience at 7th st an 5th ave. ####ing roads dept.


Awesome news on the council decision!

There is a similar situation on 5th street sb and 12ave. They installed a double red on the left turn lane. Anyone shed some light on if this actually means no left turns on red? It is one way to one way so it would normally be allowed but intuitively since there is two lights I would assume that left turns are prohibited.

Looking online, double red in Alberta and Saskatchewan is used to indicate a prohibited left turn but it would normally be accompanied by a standard no left turn on red sign.

So in these instances did they forget to put up the signs, or are left turn permitted?