[PGT] Flames lose 4-3. Questionable Team Defense

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

But you post was so over the top when describing his game. You used the descriptor "disastrous step back". Give me a break. On pace for over 50 points, which is less than last year, but it's early and still not a concerning number.

You forget he's 21, and is now playing full first line minutes at the leagues toughest position, and this time him and his line mates are not taking anyone by surprise and getting top efforts and even tougher match ups.

It's fine to point out that he's struggling more this year, but this is far from a "disastrous step back" and your dissapointment directed towards him and your lack of patience is concerning. Give the guy to figure out the new challenges the NHL throws his way as he graduates into an elite player, it's not all going to be roses up the learning curve.

i'm not concerned about his offensive upside. he was playing full first line minutes last year and never ever looked this bad defensively. thats what i'm concerned about - his man in the slot is open 9/10 times, he doesnt look like he's skating hard out there, he makes completely boneheaded plays in the flames zone, the list goes on and on. this isn't a few games either, this is almost every single game

I'd also like to be clear im not blaming him for this loss or any loss, but in general he needs to be better for this team to have success

he has absolutely taken gigantic steps backwards this year on the defensive side of the game and its troubling

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

How anyone is blaming ramo is beyond me

We could not get the puck out of our own zone. It was turnover after turnover.
Brodie serves up the first and gwg on a silver platter
Gio with a terrible dump at the end
Engelland trying to set a turnover record
Russell trying to get way to fancy and having the puck taken off his stick numerous times
Hamilton needs to wake up or Hartley needs to wake him up

If the D were not getting burnt wide then they played it overly safe, didnt bother standing the panthers up at the blue line and let them set up.

Are you serious? Half of the goals he allowed were horrible. It's like this every game. It's not just that his stats are bad, it's that he lets in soft goals every single game and it deflates the team.

[PaperBagger'14]

What bugs me is the complete absence of physicality in the defensive zone (few exceptions). Our defence isn't making it scary for the opposition to carry the puck in. Start making them pay for zone entries with a big hit. Right now it's "Oh no! Not another stick check", time to grow a pair and play the body.

[chockfullofgoodness]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Dang, PVR'd the game cuz I was oot & aboot, but like a dumb dumb I just checked this forum out of pure instinct as I got home and saw this thread title...but from the sounds of it, it's good I missed this one.

As bad as the Flames looked at times, the game was there for the taking. Very frustrating to watch.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by stone hands

i'm not concerned about his offensive upside. he was playing full first line minutes last year and never ever looked this bad defensively. thats what i'm concerned about - his man in the slot is open 9/10 times, he doesnt look like he's skating hard out there, he makes completely boneheaded plays in the flames zone, the list goes on and on. this isn't a few games either, this is almost every single game

I'd also like to be clear im not blaming him for this loss or any loss, but in general he needs to be better for this team to have success

he has absolutely taken gigantic steps backwards this year on the defensive side of the game and its troubling

I understand you were pointing out his complete game, and I agree he got lot of first line minutes last year, but there was a build up to that, and don't underestimate just how much more seriously the opposition are taking Monahan this year, from the players stepping up more on him and because coaches are going to be really focused on matching their best against him much more so than last year.

Also, the team it's self is struggling more defensively in general. But of a chicken and egg scenario, but his team mates aren't making it as easy on him either this year, they are all struggling and it snowballs

[FBI]

That first goal was pathetic by Ramo. Don't blame Gio, the puck was trickling behind Ramo off of a weak shot going wide and Gio was just knocking it away.

[Your Calgary Flames!]

Man, last year really screwed us for people's expectations. We are only so many games into our 3rd year of rebuilding. I get it though, we want to see that effort from last year every game. But I see some really solid pieces in this team that is our future and once we develope and get a better support team we should be alright. But I'm just a fan and get frustrated like any other.

[meeko39]

Where o where is the truckulence that Burke wanted?

[Chingas]

Hudler was by far the worst player on the ice for us tonight. It was like he was stuck in mud. From gaining the zone early with a step on the D and a chance at going to the next and shoot he elects to stand still; to stadning still and waiving his stick at Eckblad as he came by expecting Brodie to be in two places at once. He even got benched for a shift or two, so Hartly saw it as well.

I agree that goaltending has been bad but the puck possession must have been 70% Panthers tonight. We played well against the penguins because our Offence was getting back and helping the puck out and creating a rush from the neutral zone. Tonight the forwards were fleeing the zone way to early again and together with our D-men not being on their game we looked like the local high school playing the Harlem globetrotters.

Our two best D tonight were Engelland and Hamilton. When Engelland is one of your best D-men you are not going to win many games.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by stone hands

i'm not concerned about his offensive upside. he was playing full first line minutes last year and never ever looked this bad defensively.

Honestly? He did play nearly this poorly defensively last year but it didn't cost the team as much. Our goaltenders were better and for half the season he was protected by strong shutdown checking wingers like Glencross, Jones, and Byron.

The Hudler-Monahan-Gaudreau line worked for a while, specifically the month when Jiri Hudler was the hottest player in the entire NHL. As soon as Hudler naturally cooled down the line's weaknesses were exposed especially as a 5 on 5 line. It's a perfect power play unit but a terrible even strength unit. You need someone willing to skate to the puck in the corners and cycle. That someone can't be Gaudreau but on this line it's Gaudreau. It's gotta be Bennett, Jooris, Ferland, Jankowski, Poirier, Klimchuk, Frolik, anybody.

Additionally the Bennett-Backlund-Frolik line is naturally flawed too because Backs and Frolik both have soft-as-a-pillow shots. Get a harder shot opposite Bennett.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Rao absolutely jacked up that game. Jagr may have made some moves in our zone that we should have prevented, but ram NEEDS to make that save. Good teams find a way to win that game, and good teams find a way because their goalie gives them a chance. Ramo never did. Luongo gave Florida a chance tonight, and that was the difference.

Im so pissed at our goaltending. Flames might have struggled this year, but if they kept us in it more nights than not, or hell, even stolen a game, we'd still be in it. No team is good enough to survive with such pathetic goaltending.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Just got back from the game...here are some thoughts:

-I met several very, very, very inebriated Flames fans tonight. All very jovial despite what was going on. They must not be avid followers of the team. Didn't meet any CPers tonight...at least not that I know of.

-You must all surely know that the relentless mocking of Panthers fans (or lack thereof), the franchise, and everything to do with South Florida was basically a voodoo curse against the Flames tonight right? Maybe tone it down next time and there will be a better result. The hockey gods were angered.

Panthers: Honestly, nobody stood out in an overly positive way tonight. Jagr, Huberdeau, and Ekblad all had some nice moments. Unfortunately, the positives for the Panthers tonight were that they took advantage of the many, many chances the Flames gave them. They didn't necessarily deserve to win tonight.

Flames: Oh my...so many bad turnovers and missed coverages. However, some individuals need to be talked about

-Giordano: I'm really concerned that he's lost all confidence in his game. He's hesitating and fumbling the puck all over the ice. These are not good signs from your captain.

-Wideman: One of the worst games I've ever seen him play. He was never the strongest skater, but he's abominable now. I wonder how long until he's traded.

-Brodie, Hamiton, Russell: All played pretty solid games overall. I don't know what Brodie was thinking on that turnover, but he didn't have many options. I'll give him a pass since he's been so strong overall.

-Hudler: Pretty invisible yet again, and has no aggressiveness to his game whatsoever. Perhaps he's one of the few who have tuned Hartley out.

-Jooris: Made some awful decisions tonight, but at least he was aggressive and trying to make a difference. He shouldn't try to fight anymore though.

-Colborne and Jones: Both had incredibly strong games. I want Colborne to be more creative with the puck, but he was very strong tonight. Along with Stajan they were the best line tonight.

-Backlund, Frolik, and Monahan: All were steady defensively, and created some chances now and then offensively. Not their best game, but at least they didn't regress entirely.

-Gaudreau and Bennett: Both fought the puck a little tonight. They were both ok.

-Grant: The more I see of him the more I like. Defensively responsible, good physicality, excellent on face-offs, shoots the puck when he gets the chance. Perfect 4th line center material.

-Ferland: He had one really good shift where he checked two Panthers in a manner of seconds. Defensively he was quite good, especially on the PK. Offensively he was tentative.

-Ramo: Get the #### off my team Ramo. I'm tired of your ####. Seriously, you ####ing suck. 3 of the 4 goals he let in were stoppable by an average NHL goalie. I can't take this anymore.

Find a goalie Treliving! This has got to stop.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Just got back from the game...here are some thoughts:

-I met several very, very, very inebriated Flames fans tonight. All very jovial despite what was going on. They must not be avid followers of the team. Didn't meet any CPers tonight...at least not that I know of.

-You must all surely know that the relentless mocking of Panthers fans (or lack thereof), the franchise, and everything to do with South Florida was basically a voodoo curse against the Flames tonight right? Maybe tone it down next time and there will be a better result. The hockey gods were angered.

Panthers: Honestly, nobody stood out in an overly positive way tonight. Jagr, Huberdeau, and Ekblad all had some nice moments. Unfortunately, the positives for the Panthers tonight were that they took advantage of the many, many chances the Flames gave them. They didn't necessarily deserve to win tonight.

Flames: Oh my...so many bad turnovers and missed coverages. However, some individuals need to be talked about

-Giordano: I'm really concerned that he's lost all confidence in his game. He's hesitating and fumbling the puck all over the ice. These are not good signs from your captain.

-Wideman: One of the worst games I've ever seen him play. He was never the strongest skater, but he's abominable now. I wonder how long until he's traded.

-Brodie, Hamiton, Russell: All played pretty solid games overall. I don't know what Brodie was thinking on that turnover, but he didn't have many options. I'll give him a pass since he's been so strong overall.

-Hudler: Pretty invisible yet again, and has no aggressiveness to his game whatsoever. Perhaps he's one of the few who have tuned Hartley out.

-Jooris: Made some awful decisions tonight, but at least he was aggressive and trying to make a difference. He shouldn't try to fight anymore though.

-Colborne and Jones: Both had incredibly strong games. I want Colborne to be more creative with the puck, but he was very strong tonight. Along with Stajan they were the best line tonight.

-Backlund, Frolik, and Monahan: All were steady defensively, and created some chances now and then offensively. Not their best game, but at least they didn't regress entirely.

-Gaudreau and Bennett: Both fought the puck a little tonight. They were both ok.

-Grant: The more I see of him the more I like. Defensively responsible, good physicality, excellent on face-offs, shoots the puck when he gets the chance. Perfect 4th line center material.

-Ferland: He had one really good shift where he checked two Panthers in a manner of seconds. Defensively he was quite good, especially on the PK. Offensively he was tentative.

-Ramo: Get the #### off my team Ramo. I'm tired of your ####. Seriously, you ####ing suck. 3 of the 4 goals he let in were stoppable by an average NHL goalie. I can't take this anymore.

Find a goalie Treliving! This has got to stop.

LOL...did you fire back 4 consecutive shots of jack right before your Ramo paragraph?

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by cznTiburon

That play by gio at the end to ice it was an absolute idiotic play. Gave this team no chance to try for it since their face offs were god awful. Just a #### game to watch tonight

I agree with everything you said other than the faceoff comment... Believe it or not, the Flames actually won 59% of the draws tonight.

[Huntingwhale]

As much as I love reading HFOil after a loss, this place can be just as bad sometimes.

Ooooooh boy, looks like the sky is falling again!!

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

How anyone is blaming ramo is beyond me

We could not get the puck out of our own zone. It was turnover after turnover.
Brodie serves up the first and gwg on a silver platter
Gio with a terrible dump at the end
Engelland trying to set a turnover record
Russell trying to get way to fancy and having the puck taken off his stick numerous times
Hamilton needs to wake up or Hartley needs to wake him up

If the D were not getting burnt wide then they played it overly safe, didnt bother standing the panthers up at the blue line and let them set up.

How people continue to defend Ramo is beyond me. Yes, the defence in front of him was brutal but that doesn't mean he didn't let in a couple of soft goals. That fourth goal was a complete softie, give me a break. 99.9% of the goalies in the NHL save that shot.

[dammage79]

Ramo: Piss poor rebounding control. 2 goals could've easily been stopped if he knew how to direct pucks off of his pad. 30 other goalies know how to do it. Still a mystery to the much maligned Finn. Ortio knows how with some semblance of regularity, Kipper was the best at it. If the pucks weren't dumped into the corner, they were kicked out to a waiting defender higher up the boards, giving them a chance to setup square to the puck in case of a secondary chance. Ramo truly is the worst at this, bar none. Few other goailes have this issue. The D men are usually in the right spots with any other goalie in the world. But look out of place and lazy in front of Ramo. Seriously it is bewildering how people can bindly defend Ramo after continuous deflating busch league goals.

Poor positional play (for the majority of game play). Frantic, over charges the shooter, weak lateral movement. Cannot corral a puck that was in his glove, then flops around.

Only goal Ramo deserves full absolution from tonight is goal #3. No goalie had a chance on that one.

That Jagr goal, the whiffed shot? If ramo had his pad flat on the ice instead of being ready to push off to god knows where, that puck was stopped, but then again, the angle at which he was positioned, he would've kicked out that rebound was right back onto a panthers stick. Essentially right behind him because he was so out of position initially meing that rebound could end up on a Panthers stick for an easy tap in to a very open glove side.

He really is a hot mess.

Sure, the D coverage looks bad and is not optimal right now, but it is a direct result of how the goalie plays pucks. Make no mistake about it. These guys look lost because there is zero consistency in Ramo's game. From fundamental mechanics to..... well everything. It's plain as day, you can see it. I wish you ardent Ramo defenders could see it, realize it on your own.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

Mistakes are going to be made...plenty of them by our D tonight but the lack of speed in Wideman and Engelland is the scary part. Even if they play a perfect game their speed against forwards is an issue and it was obvious tonight.

While I agree regarding the speed, Engelland has been an even or + in eight straight games and is +4 over that spread. He has absolutely not been an issue.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Anyone else find it real coincidental that all 3 goalies played good last year, all 3 goalies are playing bad this year?

1 goal was weak on Ramo, but he is not the problem. For "top 2 defence in the league on paper" this team sucks defensively on the ice. It's not all goaltending.

[dammage79]

It's all goaltending. There's been worse defenses covered up by good goaltending. It's goaltending. It's the problem. Rotating 3 every other game is a problem too. It's stupid, Players cannot adjust to three different styles every other game, there's no muscle memory to it. Instinct.

It's all goaltending led by the indecision of management and coaching to let it flounder the way it has.

The Pens win was great because they won with average calm goaltending. The last W's well those we'll chalk up to favorable bounces.