[News] Olli Jokinen talks about his career

[Coach]

Originally Posted by skudr248

Loved this quote, had me laughing good.

Genius can't teach. That quote confirms my suspicions on why Gretzky was a bad coach.

"No, Wayne, I can't see that happening, because I'm not the greatest player who ever lived. Sorry."

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by bax

"Drinking for two days straight" or 3-4 drinks after dinner. Nobody knows the truth on this board, it's all just hearsay

Tinordi would rather leap to conclusions that would best suit his hate filled plight / agenda. It's more of the same.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

I think it speaks to the value of leaders who can rally the troops and get commitment/buy in off the ice as opposed the leaders who do their "speaking" on the ice.

What sets Giordano apart as a leader is that he can do both.

Except Giordano has just one career playoff point. His on-ice leadership as captain hasn't ever reached 82 games in a season. I see the off ice/rallying the troops as an indication of a great coach (ie. Hartley helping Ferland turn his life around).

Sure Gio is a good captain but I don't think we can understate the culture change that Bob Hartley has instilled in his players.

[AcGold]

What makes Hartley so effective is that his captain buys in 100%. Many don't and without a strong captaincy/coaching relationship it's impossible for the coach to get the most out of the team.

They will follow the captains lead 9 times out of 10 over the coach because the captain sets the bar. Gio set the bar as 100% hard work and discipline.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Genius can't teach. That quote confirms my suspicions on why Gretzky was a bad coach.

"No, Wayne, I can't see that happening, because I'm not the greatest player who ever lived. Sorry."

Whats the saying? If you can't play, then coach?

I agree though I think its hard to be really great at something and try and coach it.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by AcGold

What makes Hartley so effective is that his captain buys in 100%. Many don't and without a strong captaincy/coaching relationship it's impossible for the coach to get the most out of the team.

They will follow the captains lead 9 times out of 10 over the coach because the captain sets the bar. Gio set the bar as 100% hard work and discipline.

I think you've got it backwards. "Buying in" to something crappy (like Brent Sutter's coaching) still doesn't make it a good thing.

Hartley's message, system, and utilization of his players in the correct roles is what makes Giordano look so good as a leader.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Leadership doesn't start on the bench with the guy being called the captain, it starts behind the bench, the head coach.

[Sainters7]

Cool (and depressing) story about the Chicago series, love that kind of insight. He's right, that team was a contender and should've went far. But IMO even before that series started, I felt like we had already blown the season.

Coughing up a 14pt lead or whatever it was in the division and losing it to Vancouver after all those injuries is what killed us. We should've had an easy first round draw against the Blues (who weren't near what they are now), instead we completely limp down the stretch and draw a young, up and coming Blackhawks team. Disgusting.

He's right, with our experienced roster and how young the Hawks were, we could've beaten them. But we had already choked that season away before the playoffs even started. That year still stings.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I think you've got it backwards. "Buying in" to something crappy (like Brent Sutter's coaching) still doesn't make it a good thing.

Hartley's message, system, and utilization of his players in the correct roles is what makes Giordano look so good as a leader.

I disagree, you purposefully misinterpreted

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Whats the saying? If you can't play, then coach?

I agree though I think its hard to be really great at something and try and coach it.

There's a reason that 3-4th line plugs end up as great coaches, and many top-tier players end up not doing so well. For someone like Gretzky that is amplified because literally no one sees the game the way he does. He likely can't explain it. It would lead to a lot of frustration for both he and the players, as he can't understand that they don't see what he does, and they can't understand what he's trying to show you or how you're supposed to execute it without being miles ahead of everyone else.

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by AcGold

What makes Hartley so effective is that his captain buys in 100%. Many don't and without a strong captaincy/coaching relationship it's impossible for the coach to get the most out of the team.

They will follow the captains lead 9 times out of 10 over the coach because the captain sets the bar. Gio set the bar as 100% hard work and discipline.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I think you've got it backwards. "Buying in" to something crappy (like Brent Sutter's coaching) still doesn't make it a good thing.

Hartley's message, system, and utilization of his players in the correct roles is what makes Giordano look so good as a leader.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Leadership doesn't start on the bench with the guy being called the captain, it starts behind the bench, the head coach.

I think both sides are making valid points that the opposing side is overlooking. One side says Hartley is effective because of Gio; other side says Gio is effective because of Hartley. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Hartely absolutely sets the bar, and leadership of the team starts there, but his message certainly is easier to get through to a group when he has a captain like Gio helping lead the way. It’s most definitely a mutually beneficial relationship. It’s been a long time since we’ve had that cohesion between coach and captain.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Larry David

I think both sides are making valid points that the opposing side is overlooking. One side says Hartley is effective because of Gio; other side says Gio is effective because of Hartley. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Hartely absolutely sets the bar, and leadership of the team starts there, but his message certainly is easier to get through to a group when he has a captain like Gio helping lead the way. It’s most definitely a mutually beneficial relationship. It’s been a long time since we’ve had that cohesion between coach and captain.

Sure, and that's really why this whole stigma of "buying in" is overblown, IMO.

How were the Flames supposed to "buy into" Butler getting first pairing minutes all season, for example? David Moss as the #1 C for 9 games? Those aren't decisions a captain can control at all, but they have an effect in the win column.

Sometimes the coach just has a sub-optimal game plan for the players he's given. Look at how many blame Keenan (rightfully so) on having zero structure and not even practicing powerplays. This Jokinen story even confirms as much. Keenan didn't care about his players lives outside hockey at all.

Hartley had the balls to bench Wideman in game 2 last season, something Brent/Keenan/Playfair didn't do. That's true leadership.

Bob is also on record saying the locker room belongs to the players (where Giordano/Hudler/Stajan's leadership starts) and he has to trust those leaders.

[EM11]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Both TSN and Fan960 went from stunned shock to outright mockery, on air, when the signing was announced. Neither ever apologized for their behaviour, and neither ever came back to admit they were wrong.

I remember this as clear as day, and it's the reason I still dislike Rob Kerr. He acted as though he was personally offended by the move. It was like his "calling a fight" persona came on-air and he just went off on the idea of Jokinen coming back. I just sat and listened and thought "well I love Olli, and Rob Kerr has no class."

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Sure, and that's really why this whole stigma of "buying in" is overblown, IMO.

How were the Flames supposed to "buy into" Butler getting first pairing minutes all season, for example? David Moss as the #1 C for 9 games? Those aren't decisions a captain can control at all, but they have an effect in the win column.

Sometimes the coach just has a sub-optimal game plan for the players he's given. Look at how many blame Keenan (rightfully so) on having zero structure and not even practicing powerplays. This Jokinen story even confirms as much. Keenan didn't care about his players lives outside hockey at all.

Hartley had the balls to bench Wideman in game 2 last season, something Brent/Keenan/Playfair didn't do. That's true leadership.

Bob is also on record saying the locker room belongs to the players (where Giordano/Hudler/Stajan's leadership starts) and he has to trust those leaders.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around from ownership to management to coaches to players for what appears to be dysfunction in previous regimes. The proof is in the results. But I won't lay it entirely and directly at the coaches feet which you seem to be doing.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Larry David

I think there's plenty of blame to go around from ownership to management to coaches to players for what appears to be dysfunction in previous regimes. The proof is in the results. But I won't lay it entirely and directly at the coaches feet which you seem to be doing.

The one person that nothing can be blamed on is Iginla himself. All the failure, fired coaches, locker room problems, lack of buy in happened in spite of Iginla even though he was one of the only constants throughout.

[MrMastodonFarm]

MOD EDIT: Not needed.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Larry David

I think there's plenty of blame to go around from ownership to management to coaches to players for what appears to be dysfunction in previous regimes. The proof is in the results. But I won't lay it entirely and directly at the coaches feet which you seem to be doing.

I'm giving credit where it's due. Hartley won the Jack Adams. Gio didn't win the Messier award. The proof is definitely in the results.

For sure there's blame to be passed around, but that's not what I'm trying to say here. Bob Hartley deserves a significant chunk of the credit for getting the Flames back into the playoffs again.

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The one person that nothing can be blamed on is Iginla himself. All the failure, fired coaches, locker room problems, lack of buy in happened in spite of Iginla even though he was one of the only constants throughout.

Well I did mention players(where iginla would categorize as) in amongst ownership, management and coaches. But if you're insinuating that Iginla is solely or mostly to blame because he is one of the constants, you're kidding yourself. I know some people like to bury their heads in the sand when it comes to their idols, but you seem to be just as exaggerated in your counter view. Iginla is just one player dude.

The team wasn't good enough, period. Players failed with consistency (and not just Iginla). Hot and cold streaks. Win one lose one. Win five in a row, lose five in a row. One year the team can score but can't defend, followed by a well defended team that can't score. Coaches failed to get the most of the players, and I'm mostly speculating here, but it appears that the players weren't held accountable enough. Management and ownership failed to correct that and we clung to an aging roster for far too long. Everyone has their share in the blame.

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I'm giving credit where it's due. Hartley won the Jack Adams. Gio didn't win the Messier award. The proof is definitely in the results.



For sure there's blame to be passed around, but that's not what I'm trying to say here. Bob Hartley deserves a significant chunk of the credit for getting the Flames back into the playoffs again.

Ok, when you put it like that, fair enough. I agree 1000% that Bob deserves a ton of credit. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But to be honest, your praise gets muddled with your mud slinging at Brent Sutter and to a lesser degree Keenan. That's what I didn't agree with.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Larry David

Ok, when you put it like that, fair enough. I agree 1000% that Bob deserves a ton of credit. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But to be honest, your praise gets muddled with your mud slinging at Brent Sutter and to a lesser degree Keenan. That's what I didn't agree with.

I guess it's mud slinging, but its mostly true. Of all those coaches, Brent is the only one without any playoff games. If we are truly looking for "constants" as Tinordi so aptly points out, that's the biggest one, IMO.