Who Do You Think Will Unexpectedly Make The Team Next Year?

[Vinny01]

I personally hope the Flames work to upgrade the top line RW spot and stick Huds with Bennett in a second scoring line to see if he can work his magic 3 years in a row.

It would be awesome if we could get Toffoli or Saad to Palau with Monahan and Gadureau

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I say Austin Carrol because why the hell not.

He is my pick too. He is a rookie but he is a big guy who can play and score. He is expected to be in the AHL next season but he might surprise some people in the training camp.

My other pick are Bill Arnold, Kenny Morrisson or John Ramage. They are all bound for Stockton but they might surprise the Flames either during the training camp or on callup during the season.

[Vulcan]

Going back to trading Hudler, I think it's too soon. See where the team is at the deadline and what Jiri wants.

My main focus on improving the team is having another top four defenceman, either from within (not likely this season) or trade or UFA. Considering it more, maybe Hudler could be part of the trade.

[hariton]

Olli Jokinen

[Camronius]

Drouin

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Hudler is not the guy we should be talking about. I find him to be an essential vet moving forward. Up in the rarified air that a lot of others hold Giordano in. IMO, without those two the culture would not be set. Gio is the key piece of the leadership core but I'll argue that Hudler is not that far behind.

It's remarkable how easy it is for the collective mind set here to put Gio up on a well deserved pedestal and have a whole thread dedicated to the ridiculous sums of money and years his next contract is going to be but is so eager to knock Hudlers off of his even though he's brought an arguably equal big element to this team.

I stand by my previous remarks that talking about trading Hudler is stupid. Even the trade Gio conversations that have popped up are ridiculous.

Blows my mind man. Just blows my mind.

Why can't two or three guys disagree with you without you trotting out the CP collective mind set? Have a look it's you and three guys versus three guys that think differently.

Not sure why calling either side stupid is necessary.

I like Hudler, I do, he's been great, but I don't see him as value in the 2nd half of his contract, and I don't see his timeline fitting the young core. If you take emotion out of it you have to look at asset management.

But then I guess I'm just being stupid and CP Borg again

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why can't two or three guys disagree with you without you trotting out the CP collective mind set? Have a look it's you and three guys versus three guys that think differently.

Not sure why calling either side stupid is necessary.

I like Hudler, I do, he's been great, but I don't see him as value in the 2nd half of his contract, and I don't see his timeline fitting the young core. If you take emotion out of it you have to look at asset management.

But then I guess I'm just being stupid and CP Borg again

Oh you think you're the ONLY three on CP to go off on trading Hudler this year? Okay. Pre season, same arguments, all star break, same damned thing, ooooooh trade deadline was a fantastic argument. So forgive me for trotting out the old CP Borg collective reference. Because you three are certainly not the first to bring this up.

Gio and Hudler are the same age. If you want, we could argue the merits of which player the team could merrily keep on trucking without. Of course the debate has some very fresh evidence supporting the idea Hudler may be more important.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Oh you think you're the ONLY three on CP to go off on trading Hudler this year? Okay. Pre season, same arguments, all star break, same damned thing, ooooooh trade deadline was a fantastic argument. So forgive me for trotting out the old CP Borg collective reference. Because you three are certainly not the first to bring this up.

Gio and Hudler are the same age. If you want, we could argue the merits of which player the team could merrily keep on trucking without. Of course the debate has some very fresh evidence supporting the idea Hudler may be more important.

Well there is always the deal the veteran crowd, but if you're going to toss around Borg collectives you have to see the difference in who you are talking to.

I've never been the trade all the vets guy, you can't give spots to kids. It never works out.

I like Hudler, so this isn't an attack on the guy.

Its asset management
Its fitting assets to a core
Its cap management

If I'm wrong, and Hudler's market is way lower, or his demands or a home town discount take him to 3 years and 4M then ignore all of this.

But I'm guessing I'm right, and the Flames shouldn't sign that contract.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Oh you think you're the ONLY three on CP to go off on trading Hudler this year? Okay. Pre season, same arguments, all star break, same damned thing, ooooooh trade deadline was a fantastic argument. So forgive me for trotting out the old CP Borg collective reference. Because you three are certainly not the first to bring this up.

Gio and Hudler are the same age. If you want, we could argue the merits of which player the team could merrily keep on trucking without. Of course the debate has some very fresh evidence supporting the idea Hudler may be more important.

Really? Norris worthy defensemen are not only infinitely harder to procure that scoring wingers, the flames have far less defensemen in the system than wingers. They can stand to find/develop a winger. You simply cannot come close to replacing Gio

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well there is always the deal the veteran crowd, but if you're going to toss around Borg collectives you have to see the difference in who you are talking to.

I've never been the trade all the vets guy, you can't give spots to kids. It never works out.

I like Hudler, so this isn't an attack on the guy.

Its asset management
Its fitting assets to a core
Its cap management

If I'm wrong, and Hudler's market is way lower, or his demands or a home town discount take him to 3 years and 4M then ignore all of this.

But I'm guessing I'm right, and the Flames shouldn't sign that contract.

Even in terms of asset management there's a few circumstances which allow Hudler another 4 year deal which would be ideal for both the Flames and Hudler.

Jones' 4 million will be off of the books. The year after Wideman's cap hit comes off of the books and as much as I am a massive Wideman fan I can digest moving on from Wideman than I can Hudler. Not to mention Smids and Engellands. So even 6m x 4y is a completly acceptable contract to invest/reward Hudler.

I'm not blind to the fact that the sums of money coming off the books in the next two seasons won't all be free with Gio's new deal and raises for certain core young players will need to be accounted for. There's still plenty of cap room to absorb Hudlers next contract. I don't think 7m is the kind of money he'll be seeking. but 6m is totally do-able. If I were to guess and maybe be hopeful, he'd be in the 5.5 range. Of course all this is a given on how he does next season.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Really? Norris worthy defensemen are not only infinitely harder to procure that scoring wingers, the flames have far less defensemen in the system than wingers. They can stand to find/develop a winger. You simply cannot come close to replacing Gio

Who said I believed that? I said you can argue which player the team can carry on without moving forward and the Flames record without Gio is pretty fresh evidence supporting that argument. Whereas forward scoring production would take a big time hit without Hudler, and there'll pretty good evidence supporting that as well.

I take nothing away from Gio and he will get paid. But to omit Hudler from the same deserving conversation and instead accept the idea that he should be traded is...... I'll say it again. Stupid.

Gio is the Captain, the culture setter in the locker room, for that alone he is irreplaceable. But the on ice argument can be argued.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well there is always the deal the veteran crowd, but if you're going to toss around Borg collectives you have to see the difference in who you are talking to.

I've never been the trade all the vets guy, you can't give spots to kids. It never works out.

I like Hudler, so this isn't an attack on the guy.

Its asset management
Its fitting assets to a core
Its cap management

If I'm wrong, and Hudler's market is way lower, or his demands or a home town discount take him to 3 years and 4M then ignore all of this.

But I'm guessing I'm right, and the Flames shouldn't sign that contract.

^ Exactly
2017-18 sees Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett off ELC's. I would not expect bridge contracts for any of them, so those new contracts will add a lot to the books.
NHL teams 'need' cheap-contract-contributors to be successful. Tampa and Anaheim are perfect examples.
If Hudler chooses to stay at that kind of discount (to what I expect he would get and rightfully deserves as a UFA) - excellent. I will be thrilled to have him here.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by eldrickonice

^ exactly
2017-18 sees gaudreau, monahan and bennett off elc's.

2016-17 for Monahan & Gaudreau

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Even in terms of asset management there's a few circumstances which allow Hudler another 4 year deal which would be ideal for both the Flames and Hudler.

Jones' 4 million will be off of the books. The year after Wideman's cap hit comes off of the books and as much as I am a massive Wideman fan I can digest moving on from Wideman than I can Hudler. Not to mention Smids and Engellands. So even 6m x 4y is a completly acceptable contract to invest/reward Hudler.

I'm not blind to the fact that the sums of money coming off the books in the next two seasons won't all be free with Gio's new deal and raises for certain core young players will need to be accounted for. There's still plenty of cap room to absorb Hudlers next contract. I don't think 7m is the kind of money he'll be seeking. but 6m is totally do-able. If I were to guess and maybe be hopeful, he'd be in the 5.5 range. Of course all this is a given on how he does next season.

I hear you, if they have the space then its less of a concern.

Impossible to guesstimate but I gave it a shot.

For the 16-17 season I have

Hudler at 6
Gaudreau at 4.5
Monahan at 5.0
Colborne at 1.75
Backlund at 3.5
Bouma 1.75
Giordano at 7
Russell at 4

a combination of Gillies and Ortio making 3.5 total which I think is pretty conservative.

And that gives me 70M payroll, so not a lot of room.

All kinds of room for debate on my plugs, but I think both up and down.

And I let Jones and Byron walk away. As well as Hiller.

I just don't think a 33 year old winger should get 6M in the team's current structure.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hear you, if they have the space then its less of a concern.

Impossible to guesstimate but I gave it a shot.

For the 16-17 season I have

Hudler at 6
Gaudreau at 4.5
Monahan at 5.0
Colborne at 1.75
Backlund at 3.5
Bouma 1.75
Giordano at 7
Russell at 4

a combination of Gillies and Ortio making 3.5 total which I think is pretty conservative.

And that gives me 70M payroll, so not a lot of room.

All kinds of room for debate on my plugs, but I think both up and down.

And I let Jones and Byron walk away. As well as Hiller.

I just don't think a 33 year old winger should get 6M in the team's current structure.

You've kind of convinced me with your last few posts I have to say. Makes me sad though I've really come to like Hudler. I guess the only real chance is if he took a significant discount to stay, like re-signing for the same amount. Which makes no sense but who knows.

PS. I think Monahan and Gaudreau will get identical contracts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by heep223

2016-17 for Monahan & Gaudreau

Isn't it 20-15/16?

I think they both only have one year left.

Next summer we have
Gio, Hudler, Russell as UFA's we want to keep

Jones and Hiller represent $8.5M coming off the books

Monahan and Gaudreau are both RFA's finishing their 3 year ELC's

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Isn't it 20-15/16?

I think they both only have one year left.

Next summer we have
Gio, Hudler, Russell as UFA's we want to keep

Jones and Hiller represent $8.5M coming off the books

Monahan and Gaudreau are both RFA's finishing their 3 year ELC's

Yep, next season is the last on their ELCs. 2016-17 will be the first season on their new contracts.

[SanFranFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am in the trade Hudler camp, but I think the deadline makes more sense.

He would be one of the top players available. Also, he would be here helping the kids develop for 3/4 of the season first.

I think a problem would be that if next season goes anything like this season, we would be in no mood to move Hudler at the trade deadline. Rewarding the team that got them there and all that. (Glencross was different as he was a big notch below Hudler's level of play).

[Mattman]

YOU'RE WRONG I'M NOT! EAT MY OPINION!




can't we just all get along

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hear you, if they have the space then its less of a concern.

Impossible to guesstimate but I gave it a shot.

For the 16-17 season I have

Hudler at 6
Gaudreau at 4.5
Monahan at 5.0
Colborne at 1.75
Backlund at 3.5
Bouma 1.75
Giordano at 7
Russell at 4

a combination of Gillies and Ortio making 3.5 total which I think is pretty conservative.

And that gives me 70M payroll, so not a lot of room.

All kinds of room for debate on my plugs, but I think both up and down.

And I let Jones and Byron walk away. As well as Hiller.

I just don't think a 33 year old winger should get 6M in the team's current structure.

You did not include Bennett, who is cheap in 16-17, but is off his ELC in 17-18