2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[nik-]

Originally Posted by pylon

Fair enough, that is not what I am insinuating.

But for the better part, from my observations of some very successful people. There is no such thing as a '9-5' job in their world. The dealer group I used to work for, one of the two brothers that owned it, worked from 6am-10pm every, single, day. I would get emails from him sometimes at 2 in the morning. He treated his employees like absolute gold, and employed over 700 people in this city.

Is it fair for him to be over taxed? That's the guy you want to be happy with his tax rate, or else eventually he'll just say F-it, and shut the whole thing down.

lol come on, you don't actually believe this load of #### do you? He's going to just stop making a ton of money because he's not quite making as much money as before?

That's not how it works.

[lambeburger]

Breakdown of the booze hikes http://aglc.ca/pdf/quickfacts/markup_rates_schedule.pdf

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by pylon

Fair enough, that is not what I am insinuating.

But for the better part, from my observations of some very successful people. There is no such thing as a '9-5' job in their world. The dealer group I used to work for, one of the two brothers that owned it, worked from 6am-10pm every, single, day. I would get emails from him sometimes at 2 in the morning. He treated his employees like absolute gold, and employed over 700 people in this city.

Is it fair for him to be over taxed? That's the guy you want to be happy with his tax rate, or else eventually he'll just say F-it, and shut the whole thing down.

Define "over taxed". In the '70s personal income over $60K (about $350K in 2015 dollars) was taxed at nearly 70% and corporate taxes were in the 40-50% range. In the '60s the highest marginal tax rates were into the 80% range. People didn't just walk away from their businesses or quit being surgeons to become janitors because they made a little less money than they would've made if tax rates were lower.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've always been on the fence about tax the wealthy more. Basically it penalizes success. I get the haves can contribute more. But without the success of a huge portion of the haves, the have-nots have nobody to work for.

Taxing the rich always just seems like petty jealousy to me.

This is exactly where I struggle. I totally think we need to pay for the less fortunate and am completely in favour of social welfare programs and a strong social safety net in general. At the same time paying more taxes just because you have more success doesn't sit well with me because the attitude is 'those guys should pay because they can afford it'. I get it and when I was making a lot less money I held that sentiment. Frankly now that the shoe is on the other foot though, I coincidentally have a new appreciation for the other sides arguments.

[chemgear]

Hmmm, Charitable donation tax credit is getting slashed too (21% to 12.27%). Outside of the layoffs and income tax hikes that isn't going to help charities at all.

Probably one of the first things a lot of people will cut back on.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GGG

I like the long term plan to wean us off royalty revenues.

I would have liked to see every department cut by a percentage accross the board but holding the line on spending will slowly do that over the next few years.

I don't mind the tax increases and like health care premiums in general as a reminder that health care isn't free though hopefully collecting them doesn't cost additional funds. It also seems overly conplicated.

Overall I like the direction our dictator for life is taking us.

Over the next few years I hope they look at corporate tax with the focus on making us equal to the next least taxed jurisdiction

In Canada? Worldwide? BC does 11% across the board, Alberta 10%, other provinces vary between 10 and up.

Worldwide, Alberta sits at 25% which is pretty average for Western Countries (US says 40% which is laughably wrong with all their loopholes)

OR Better yet, abolish Corporate Taxes altogether!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07...te-income-tax/

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Define "over taxed". In the '70s personal income over $60K (about $350K in 2015 dollars) was taxed at nearly 70% and corporate taxes were in the 40-50% range. In the '60s the highest marginal tax rates were into the 80% range. People didn't just walk away from their businesses or quit being surgeons to become janitors because they made a little less money than they would've made if tax rates were lower.

True; however, look at where the country and economy were back then. It could be a chicken or egg thing but its not like people are wishing back to the glory days of the '70's.

[morgin]

Haven't seen it mentioned, but land titles transfer registration fees and mortgage registration fees going up from flat $50 + $1 per $5000 in value to flat $75 + $6 per $5000 in value each.

On the purchase of a ~$500,000 house with a mortgage, registration fees go from ~$300 for registration of transfer and registration of mortgage to ~$1350.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by nik-

lol come on, you don't actually believe this load of #### do you? He's going to just stop making a ton of money because he's not quite making as much money as before?

That's not how it works.

Lol. Sorry, my fault there. I forgot to qualify it. That was more directed at the "we need higher corporate taxes argument.' I am not taking about personal income.

When you are running a business like a car dealership, where the bottom line is 2-3% on average, you bet a lot of owners are selling out to these giant super groups now. They are cashing out, and the employees are paying the price when these faceless corps walk in and clean house.

Pushing corporate taxes higher will just eat deeper into a tiny bottom line for a lot of companies, and drive them out of business, or out of the province. There is already Armageddon out there right now, and if the PCs made a move to run some of the blue chip employers out of the province, it would be catastrophic.

I keep hearing this 'raise corporate taxes, and leave Joe Lunch Bucket alone." That's a fine line to skate. We have a ton of these massive companies here, because of the low taxes. Start poking they bear right now, and it will make an already had situation way worse. It should have been done during the boom, not now.

[nik-]

That is some pretty alarmist stuff there.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by morgin

Haven't seen it mentioned, but land titles transfer registration fees and mortgage registration fees going up from flat $50 + $1 per $5000 in value to flat $75 + $6 per $5000 in value each.

On the purchase of a ~$500,000 house with a mortgage, registration fees go from ~$300 for registration of transfer and registration of mortgage to ~$1350.

ive been looking for the Land Titles fee information but can't find it. Can you post the link you found that at?

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Hmmm, Charitable donation tax credit is getting slashed too (21% to 12.27%). Outside of the layoffs and income tax hikes that isn't going to help charities at all.

Probably one of the first things a lot of people will cut back on.

I don't think it will be a big issue.

Working in the charity sector, I found very few donors even knew about the Alberta Charity donation tax credit. People decide to donate because they believe in the cause, the amount of the charitable credit usually is secondary.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

ive been looking for the Land Titles fee information but can't find it. Can you post the link you found that at?

http://finance.alberta.ca/publicatio...n-complete.pdf

Page 122

Calgary Herald is reporting implementation on July 1, 2015 which the only source I can find is http://alberta.ca/budget-revenue-explained.cfm under "User Fees".

[killer_carlson]

That mortgage registration fee will be a huge revenue stream for the government. Bad for purchasers though.

So if you're going to buy, be sure the mortgage gets registered before July 1.

[Resolute 14]

I wonder of Campbell actually thinks anyone believes his "we're going to get off oil" lie? All they are going to do when oil prices recover is spend more.

And shockingly, I agree with Rachel Notley. This budget is all about hosing the middle class while leaving Prentice's richest supporters relatively unscathed. The tepid increases in the new tax bracket is pretty damned hilarious.

Still not voting for her though.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That mortgage registration fee will be a huge revenue stream for the government. Bad for purchasers though.

So if you're going to buy, be sure the mortgage gets registered before July 1.

Page 111 suggests the increases will increase revenue from Land Titles fees from 93MM to 250MM.

[Drummer]

What about the gas tax hike? How much is that?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Drummer

What about the gas tax hike? How much is that?

4 cents a litre, starting tomorrow.

[Cappy]

I wonder of Campbell actually thinks anyone believes his "we're going to get off oil" lie? All they are going to do when oil prices recover is spend more.

Unfortunately I don't think any political party will "get off the oil" revenue stream. The political willpower is missing and deep down I think the electorate's fortitude and far-sightedness is lacking.

[Drummer]

The real question I'm sure everyone has is will the machines at the casinos be tighter? Lol