[Rumour] Pens have interest in Flames d-man (Russell?)

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Locke

Except the 'actually watching him' metric.

He's better than those metrics entail, yes, but he is not worth a 1st round pick or a prospect like Pouliot.

He's a great shot blocker, and his effort is fine. Problem is that he puts himself in a position that requires he play like that.

Part of the problem is that he's paired with Wideman, so that doesn't help.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by codynw

Having the most shot blocks isn't necessarily a good thing. To me, that just sounds like the Flames rarely have the puck when he's on the ice. Remember when Butler led the team in blocks last year?

Originally Posted by ComixZone

and 7th worst league-wide when it comes to SAT.

Wideman and Russell are the only two non-Sabres in the bottom 10 (well, Myers as well thanks to his trade to Winnipeg).

It's easy to see why he blocks so many shots - it's because the puck is being shot at his net an awful lot when he's on the ice.

(don't get me wrong, I still love Russell - but he's not a 2nd pairing d-man on a high-end team, but a very good team guy).

... and your rebuttle to his +/- and scoring stats?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by codynw

Having the most shot blocks isn't necessarily a good thing. To me, that just sounds like the Flames rarely have the puck when he's on the ice.

The Flames rarely have the puck, period, unless BOTH near-Norris candidates are on the ice.

Russell is a top4 defenseman. He's more of a #4 than a #3, whereas on this team he has to be the #3 because wideman is more or a #4 or so.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Rerun

^^^ and your rebuttle to his +/- stat and scoring stat?

I'll always argue that +/- is a rubbish stat. It is not a good way to judge on-ice performance with any sort of certainty.

His point total though speaks to the strengths of his game - his breakout pass and strong work along the blueline in the offensive zone. That doesn't erase the fact that when he and Wideman are on the ice they struggle to recover the puck in their own zone.

[Resolute 14]

Course, no sooner do I type all that than I read tweets like this, lol:

Randy Sportak ‏@SUNRandySportak 2m2 minutes ago
#Flames Wideman comes out to get a phone and talks to someone.

[dino7c]

so many people wasting their time on a made up rumor

this is not happening so don't bother

[kn]

Wiseman has left the ice so who knows...

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The thought that it is better to miss the playoffs than "limp in" is an honestly pathetic change in how sports fans view the game these days. And I'm not singling you out, Flash. This is a widespread problem that transcends any single fan or fan base. But it is a loser's attitude, and it is something I sincerely pray team management is never infected by.

It is trade deadline day and we are holding a playoff spot. You don't sacrifice future picks and prospects just for today, but it is just asinine to consider blowing up the roster because we might not make it. Quitters never succeed.

Agree with this 100%. Would make me sick if we traded guys like Russell, Wideman, Hudler at the deadline because we could get draft picks for them. We are in a playoff spot FFS.

Don't mortgage the future by adding now, but don't mortgage the present by adding futures. In addition to getting some pics for pending UFA glencross, would be happy if we added a few depth pieces and/or otherwise stood pat. Which looks like it's the case.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'll always argue that +/- is a rubbish stat. It is not a good way to judge on-ice performance with any sort of certainty.

Fair enough.. although it certainly is a debatable topic... as are advanced stats.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

His point total though speaks to the strengths of his game - his breakout pass and strong work along the blueline in the offensive zone. That doesn't erase the fact that when he and Wideman are on the ice they struggle to recover the puck in their own zone.

Can you concede that this aspect of his game would improve if he was paired with Gio or Brodie? ... instead of Wideman?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Course, no sooner do I type all that than I read tweets like this, lol:

Randy Sportak ‏@SUNRandySportak 2m2 minutes ago
#Flames Wideman comes out to get a phone and talks to someone.

Love the phone watch that's going on. Media is desperate for news

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Locke

Except the 'actually watching him' metric.

I watch him a lot and I think he's a decent defenceman being overrated here.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Can you concede that this aspect of his game would improve if he was paired with Gio or Brodie? ... instead of Wideman?

I'd say yeah, pair him with a better defensive guy and he'd be better in his own zone. I'd argue the same could be said for Wideman though. The pairing has helped get us to where we are now, but I think for our team to get better, that pairing needs to get better.

Is that moving one of them? Maybe. Or it could just be adding another d-man and pushing (probably russell) down to the 3rd pairing.

I'd love to see:

Giordano - Brodie
??????? - Wideman
Russell - Engelland

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He's better than those metrics entail, yes, but he is not worth a 1st round pick or a prospect like Pouliot.

He's a great shot blocker, and his effort is fine. Problem is that he puts himself in a position that requires he play like that.

Part of the problem is that he's paired with Wideman, so that doesn't help.

See thats the problem, he is worth more than those metrics to us, so either our internal valuation is met or he isnt dealt.

No one has a gun to Treliving's head to move Kris Russell, a guy who can play top 4 minutes for $2.6M.

I completely agree with Resolute, if someone wants him they have to really wow Treliving otherwise no deal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

I watch him a lot and I think he's a decent defenceman being overrated here.

Again, its all relative. He may be overrated by some on here, but he is someone who is more valuable than his contract.

[edslunch]

Whether Russell is just okay or really good or somewhere in between is somewhat immaterial. Treliving is trying to build a team now and in the future and you don't do that by gutting the roster for futures. Glencross was dealt from a position of strength, D is not a position of strength right now for the flames. It also looks like our young forwards could mature very quickly and we could be in a position even a couple years from now to be competitive and will need a deep D for that. Trading for D futures doesn't help unless you can get ripe prospects. Instead of picks

[automaton 3]

Treliving was talking about Russell on 960 yesterday, and called him one of the most underrated players in the league.