LeBrun: Wouldn't surprise if Flames explore Kessel

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think LeBrun was wrong for speculating. We all knew it was bound to come up as soon as the Leafs were rumored to (re)start a rebuild.

I agree with his assessment, though. Kessel at 8 million a year is not going to return much. Kessel at 6 million or less will - the lower the AAV, the higher the return. @ half, I would expect one heck of a return if I am the Leafs, but I doubt they would want his cap hit going on that long. Even retaining 2 million a year becomes a bit of an issue over the life of that contract.

For all of what Phil Kessel is, one thing that he is rumored to be that he is not is 'out of shape'. Believe he placed 3rd in fitness testing on the Leafs. So, unless the Leafs are all a bunch of fatties, I would think that he is in fairly good shape. Therefore, I am not quite understanding why everyone feels his drop-off would happen in a couple of years.

The other thing that Phil Kessel is, is an elite goal scorer. Those types of players don't grow on trees.

With that being said, I am not convinced that Kessel would buy-into the program here in Calgary if Calgary did manage to acquire him. Would he be a player that would compete as hard as Hartley demands, or would he find himself at odds with Hartley (and perhaps create a bit of a division in the room?). I have no idea how (or even IF) cancerous Kessel is, but I don't necessarily feel that these types of players can be changed. It carries a certain amount of risk, at any rate. You know what they say - 'one bad apple can ruin the bunch'.

What I am really failing to understand is this. Kessel is still young. There is no reason - given the ages of other players on the team and some of their rookies/prospects in the system - that Toronto can't do a rebuild and reasonably assume that in year 3 or 4, they won't start competing. I do understand that if they retain a fair portion of his salary, there would be a reasonable expectation on the return, and how it would help their rebuild efforts. However, they will have plenty of cap space. Why can't (or shouldn't) they keep an elite winger who should still be hugely effective by the time they are finished their rebuild? Chances are, even with 2 first round picks, they will not find a player that is as productive as Kessel is.

My guess is that part of the reason they want to jettison him is due to his presence in the room (or at least, part of the reason). From that standpoint, I would be inclined not to want him in Calgary either (and I am sure Kessel would not want to waive to go to another Canadian-based team anyways).

This is all speculation from LeBrun (as he stated himself). It isn't a rumor anyways.

[Daradon]

Not a big Kessel fan, but even saying that, I just think the asking price for him would be far too high, especially for a team supposed to be in a rebuild.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Most people don't assume anything when it comes to Burke acquiring players because HE IS NOT THE GM. Why are people still not getting that?

For the same reason why Kevin Lowe is routinely blamed for the state of the Oilers even though he hasn't been GM for seven years. In the management system that is developing, GMs have been reduced to middle managers. It's the president who has the power. And that is precisely why LeBrun is inventing this rumour.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by spetch

True but I also don't believe he goes in the office and says trade for Kessel or you're fired.

No. But Treliving doesn't make these decisions in isolation either. Treliving, Burke, Conroy, the pro scouts meet regularly. Names come up. Values are assessed. When that happens with Kessel, it's not a stretch to think Burke makes some positive comments.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

For the same reason why Kevin Lowe is routinely blamed for the state of the Oilers even though he hasn't been GM for seven years. In the management system that is developing, GMs have been reduced to middle managers. It's the president who has the power. And that is precisely why LeBrun is inventing this rumour.

Exactly.

People who think Burke is sitting idlely by, keeping quiet in the corner are perhaps the most naïve people on the go. Sure Treliving is the GM, and sure he has final say on personnel moves, but to think that he doesn't consult with Burke, soliciting his advice on difficult decisions is downright idiotic.

If Burke truly isn't having any input to personnel decision, I ask the question; where can I get a boss like that?

[Poe969]

I don't think there is anyone on here who thinks Burke has no say on what's going on with the team but some on here make it sound like Burke has the final say on everything that happens and Treliving is just a puppet. I don't think that's how things work by the sounds of things. I'm sure Burke has a great amount of influence on what happens with the team but if he liked Kessel and Treliving, Conroy and the owners all didn't like him, the issue would be resolved.

I don't think one person runs any team; the president, GM, owners and the rest of the management group all have a say on what happens....that may not be the case with the oilers though but I digress.

I think the Flames should explore every trade opportunity and that's what makes a management team successful. If they didn't talk about possible options to benefit the team, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. I doubt the Kessel conversation is long but I agree and think they'll at least talk about it but doubt anything comes of it.

[PeteMoss]

Its one thing to trade for a guy when he's in his early 20s and another when he's in his late 20s. A lot more expensive and production will trend downward. Burke isn't a dope - he understands this.

[Sylvanfan]

Given what has happened to a few other guys who had poor off ice conditioning recently I'm avoiding Kessel for sure. Jarome Iginla doesn't produce at a 8 million dollar a year clip at his age, and he's as well conditioned as you can expect an athlete his age to be. So how is a guy like Kessel going to hold up?

[Rerun]

There's a reason Toronto wants to get rid on an "elite" player like Kessel. The thing he's elite in is the "I don't give a #### department".

When faced with adversity and the going gets tough, Kessel quits and walks away..

Why would anybody want a quitter, at any price, on their team? Kessel has quit on the leafs and he'll do it again, to the team he's traded too.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Rerun

There's a reason Toronto wants to get rid on an "elite" player like Kessel. The thing he's elite in is the "I don't give a #### department".

When faced with adversity and the going gets tough, Kessel quits and walks away..

In the last three seasons, Kessel is the only NHL player to finish in the top 10 of NHL scoring all 3 years.
That's decent.

[SofaProfessor]

I don't mind Kessel. He's an elite goal scorer who lacks the drive to be his absolute best. He's probably best suited as someone who can sit behind the leaders of a team and just do his thing rather than be the centre of attention. I wouldn't mind him on the Flames but that being said, the asking price will be astronomical. Someone will pay it but I don't think the Flames should. Just to start the conversation you're talking about a 1st, a top prospect and a roster player.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

For the same reason why Kevin Lowe is routinely blamed for the state of the Oilers even though he hasn't been GM for seven years. In the management system that is developing, GMs have been reduced to middle managers. It's the president who has the power. And that is precisely why LeBrun is inventing this rumour.

I don't think these are comparable at all, I doubt many people think Lowe is directly involved in trades anymore. Edm's management, drafting, scouting, development and recently coaching have been incompetent for years. Lowe either hired every one of them, hired the person that hired them or failed to replace them. To summarize, Lowe is responsible for the state of the Oilers even though he hasn't been GM for years.

[Resolute 14]

We don't want them to be comparable, but they are. Calgary's management, drafting, scouting, development and even coaching are going to flow down from Burke. The only difference in the model is that Lowe has been Oilers president for seven years, and Burke ours for two. The difference in results will ultimately be borne out of the fact that Burke is not Lowe, and should have a much stronger grasp on what kind of people an organization needs to breed success.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

In the last three seasons, Kessel is the only NHL player to finish in the top 10 of NHL scoring all 3 years.
That's decent.

I'm not saying he doesn't have talent. What he doesn't have, however, is character. He's a quitter. He's quit on the Leafs (even though he still collects he $8 mil paycheck). Teams don't need quitters in the locker room. They never come through when times get tough or give 110%.

See my signature below...

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I'm not saying he doesn't have talent. What he doesn't have, however, is character. He's a quitter. He's quit on the Leafs (even though he still collects he $8 mil paycheck). Teams don't need quitters in the locker room. They never come through when times get tough or give 110%.

See my signature below...

I don't think you are always among the elite without some kind of drive.
In a place where he is a supporting player, I think he will do very well, thrive even.
The problem is, $8m/year has to go to a non supporting guy.
Which is why we are even having a Kessel conversation.
And why he might be had for a discount.
No one here is interested in the least without it being a salary dump discount trade.

[The Reverend]

6 pages in and no Gary Leeman jokes yet? Disappointing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

In the last three seasons, Kessel is the only NHL player to finish in the top 10 of NHL scoring all 3 years.
That's decent.

He's good, but has also pretty much the only good offensive player on a crap team. Sometimes those guys get more points than they deserve because there's no one to compete for ice time, power play time, etc. there's a few examples of consistent scorers on bad teams who dropped a lot when traded to a good team.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's good, but has also pretty much the only good offensive player on a crap team. Sometimes those guys get more points than they deserve because there's no one to compete for ice time, power play time, etc. there's a few examples of consistent scorers on bad teams who dropped a lot when traded to a good team.

60 points in 70 games as a 22 year old on a good Boston team says otherwise.

[_Q_]

I'd love to have Kessel on this team if the price to acquire him makes sense. Not every player on the team has to be a leader. As long as he can be an effective follower, he can be a very important part of this franchise.

[2ArmBands]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's good, but has also pretty much the only good offensive player on a crap team. Sometimes those guys get more points than they deserve because there's no one to compete for ice time, power play time, etc. there's a few examples of consistent scorers on bad teams who dropped a lot when traded to a good team.

Toronto has been at worst a middle of the pack offensive team in recent years. They even placed 6th in goals for during the lockout season. Their issues are defense based.

Kessel has played with many good offensive players. I think Kessel has just grown sick and tired of the Toronto media and TO in general. Some personalities simply aren't suited for TO, he's certainly not the only one.