Fleury overdue for recognition by Flames

[greentree]

Originally Posted by Flacker

If Theo was a mute, his number would already be hanging in the rafters.

The guy is his own worst enemy, always has been, always will be.

I really wish I had never read his book, as it took me from being a fan and viewing him as a hero, to having a lot less respect for him as a person.

In Theo's eyes, the Flames wouldn't even still be in Calgary without his "salvation". This kind of delusion, doesn't justify reward.

Agree with most of this.
Some passages in his book did seem delusional. The documentary was cringe-inducing in parts as well.
But I'm glad I read the book and saw the doc, because they gave me more insight into his character. He sure seemed like a different guy than I knew a little back in the very early 1990s. Back then he even seemed humble. But socially awkward.
Having said all that I think his number should be formally and forever retired. But he will never make the Hockey Hall of Fame imo, let alone be seriously considered.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And let's be honest - only a tiny, tiny fraction of fans know anything about what Fleury has said or posted online. Just the obsessives and the easily riled.

That's the part I don't get. For anyone to see that, wouldn't they have to be following him on FB or twitter?

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by greentree

Agree with most of this.
Some passages in his book did seem delusional. The documentary was cringe-inducing in parts as well.
But I'm glad I read the book and saw the doc, because they gave me more insight into his character. He sure seemed like a different guy than I knew a little back in the very early 1990s. Back then he even seemed humble. But socially awkward.
Having said all that I think his number should be formally and forever retired. But he will never make the Hockey Hall of Fame imo, let alone be seriously considered.

Theoren Fleury is great at hockey, and an absolute pleasure to watch play the game. His stats for the Flames justify retiring his number. That being said, I suspect it never happens.

[Flash Walken]

The other thing is, for how 'classy' lanny is perceived, he ALSO went out of his way to book airtime on Calgary radio to #### all over the team, management and by extension ownership.

Fleury was right. Conroy was forced to retire midway through the season. The direction and evaluation of the team from management and ownership was the type of direction an idiot would go in.

Hell, maybe if they'd listened to Fleury...

[MoBiBu]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think you're missing the point. These guys have helped Fleury. They still try and help Fleury. They bent over backwards to give him that opportunity.

What was this help, exactly?

I've heard that the Flames hid Fleury's abuse problems - isn't the actually enabling and can easily be seen as selfish; why was it only after Fleury left Calgary that he started engaging the process of getting help?

It's fairly evidence Fleury left money on the table the last time he signed in Calgary. Sounds like he was the one doing them a favor in that case.

I've yet to see anything supporting the idea the Flames helped with the reinstatement - the meeting regarding that appears to include the league, the NHLPA, Fleury and his agent.

Fleury's tryout/preseason was surely a boon for merchandise and a good amount of free publicity - hardly a huge cost incurred there. He wasn't signed, after all.

What exactly is it that the Flames management has done for Fleury? A lot of posts are advancing the notion Theo is somehow majorly indebted to the Flames and I'm not seeing how this is true.

[PeteMoss]

Fleury made the owners a ton of money as well. Its not like this was some one way relationship.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Fleury made the owners a ton of money as well. Its not like this was some one way relationship.

Yeah, he was the only reason to watch the Flames in the late 90's when the Flames refused to spend the money necessary to ice a competitive team.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The other thing is, for how 'classy' lanny is perceived, he ALSO went out of his way to book airtime on Calgary radio to #### all over the team, management and by extension ownership.
..

Good point here. I was highly unimpressed with Lanny when he did that.

[GioforPM]

Lanny was already in the rafters by then, so I guess he felt free. ��

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The other thing is, for how 'classy' lanny is perceived, he ALSO went out of his way to book airtime on Calgary radio to #### all over the team, management and by extension ownership.

Was that when he didn't get a management job? I remember the comments, but I was unaware he was pushing the story. :/ Yikes.

Outside of scheduled events, where you expect the player to be on their game for being kind to the fans, I've met both players once randomly. Both were very nice to me.

As I mentioned I do think Fleury's jersey should be retired and does gets retired eventually, but whether your right or wrong, it's not going to help if you bite the hand that feeds you.

[Beatle17]

A few questions for those supporting Fleury's number retirement, which I am not one. In watching his movie why do you think he wasn't allowed in either Madison Square Garden or Chicago Stadium? Why do people connected to Fleury, the mother of his first son Josh and Brian Sutter directly contradict him about his statement about making amends? Why does he not have a relationship with his brother that he was in the cement business with (which went broke)? Why does the wife of his sponsor (who died before Theo could apologize for another of his rants) not really forgive him for his actions either?

Maybe it's because he really hasn't changed, or fixed his life since his playing days. To me all his numbers don't mean a thing if he is still an ass to the people who make the decisions.

[calgaryred]

Flames pretty much have retired the number without a banner upstairs, no one has worn the number since he did, no one wearing a popular number 14 for over 15 years says something. When Coffey left the Oilers on bad terms in a year Mark Lamb was wearing number 7. Theres no ceremony honoring Fleury but I cant see 14 ever worn again, or 12.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

A few questions for those supporting Fleury's number retirement, which I am not one. In watching his movie why do you think he wasn't allowed in either Madison Square Garden or Chicago Stadium? Why do people connected to Fleury, the mother of his first son Josh and Brian Sutter directly contradict him about his statement about making amends? Why does he not have a relationship with his brother that he was in the cement business with (which went broke)? Why does the wife of his sponsor (who died before Theo could apologize for another of his rants) not really forgive him for his actions either?

Maybe it's because he really hasn't changed, or fixed his life since his playing days. To me all his numbers don't mean a thing if he is still an ass to the people who make the decisions.

For me, the decision has little to do with his off-ice activity. I'm interested in judging his on-ice accomplishments.

For those people who are trying to decide if and how much his off-ice troubles tarnish his retirement prospects, in fairness then we should also then be asking the converse: How mediocre a hockey player can you be and still get your number retired because you're an amazing samaritan off the ice?

I don't see anyone lobbying the case for a middling / average player to get their number retired because they worked tirelessly with charities. It's unfair and hypocritical to use off-ice elements only in the negative. Therefore, I think it's unfair to bring Theo's off-ice troubles into the discussion of whether he should have his number retired.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

For me, the decision has little to do with his off-ice activity. I'm interested in judging his on-ice accomplishments.

For those people who are trying to decide if and how much his off-ice troubles tarnish his retirement prospects, in fairness then we should also then be asking the converse: How mediocre a hockey player can you be and still get your number retired because you're an amazing samaritan off the ice?

I don't see anyone lobbying the case for a middling / average player to get their number retired because they worked tirelessly with charities. It's unfair and hypocritical to use off-ice elements only in the negative. Therefore, I think it's unfair to bring Theo's off-ice troubles into the discussion of whether he should have his number retired.

The standard for me is elite on Ice performance with acceptable off ice behaviour. I think that's reasonable and there is nothing hypocritical about it

[GioforPM]

Someone above said Guy Lafleur was a convicted criminal. He isn't. He was convicted of contradictory testimony arising from his son's trail, but that conviction was overturned on appeal.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The standard for me is elite on Ice performance with acceptable off ice behaviour. I think that's reasonable and there is nothing hypocritical about it

I respect that. I'm admittedly not confident about being able to define what is acceptable to a large collection of people. It used to be that homosexuality was not "acceptable" behaviour. Too many issues from what I can see, and standards change with time.

Edit: Just to be clear, I think most convictions are fatal strikes against retirement. I'm not defending the right of a pedophile elite hockey player to have his number retired. I thought that was obvious, but just wanted to make it explicit.

[Iggy Snipe]

Fleury should be in the rafters probably, with his number retired. Do I care if, or when it happens? No.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Fire

Yeah, he was the only reason to watch the Flames in the late 90's when the Flames refused to spend the money necessary to ice a competitive team.

Haha, what money? Do you remember that Calgary almost lost the Flames because the team wasn't making money?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Was that when he didn't get a management job? I remember the comments, but I was unaware he was pushing the story. :/ Yikes.

Outside of scheduled events, where you expect the player to be on their game for being kind to the fans, I've met both players once randomly. Both were very nice to me.

As I mentioned I do think Fleury's jersey should be retired and does gets retired eventually, but whether your right or wrong, it's not going to help if you bite the hand that feeds you.

No, the management thing was a different time lannyy had less than glowing remarks for the organization.

Weird how the narrative applies to one and not the other, isn't it?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

No, the management thing was a different time lannyy had less than glowing remarks for the organization.

Weird how the narrative applies to one and not the other, isn't it?

Not really. We are comparing one example for Lanny vs a pattern of behaviour. Not hard to see how it's different. Lannys comments also had nothing to do with himself where as Theos were all about Theo