The future of Bob Hartley

[CliffFletcher]

Coaches are often fired for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are coaches. They're fall guys. How many coaches last more than three seasons out of the playoffs?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Coaches are often fired for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are coaches. They're fall guys. How many coaches last more than three seasons out of the playoffs?

I think a lot of Flames fans are still in the initial honeymoon stage of rebuilding to which there are no expectations and as long as the team plays hard we are happy. Issue is that honeymoon only lasts a season or two and eventually incremental improvement is expected. If the Flames perform worse than last season I imagine a lot of fans backing Hartley today may be changing their tune at the end of the season. It's the nature of sports and "what have you done for me lately". IMO there is no rush right now to get any deal done as Hartley is under contract for the season and lets see how things play out.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

So you think what Hartley does with aging 4th liners is more important than how he effects the progress of our future stars? Thank god you aren't our GM. You seem to think that young players are more easily motivated than vets. While that might be true (I would argue that they are about the same), getting young players to play the game the right way is the most important thing, otherwise you end up with the Oilers.

You also point to Tanguay, Iggy, etc... How many coaches did those guys float under? If you are vet making a lot of money and you can't motivate yourself, get the hell off the team.

Nothing to do with age as much as professional and financial security.

If Baertschi got a big head ... Hartley (or Burke) can put him in his place.... instead of you making 900K this year you are going to be making 300k and maybe 60K next year.

There is over half of the Flames roster that you can't use this as leverage.

If an established NHL player sees himself sacrificing future earnings to fit into the system (more checking, less goal scoring) the worst you can do is bench him or threaten to trade him (if he doesn't have a NTC).

A coach that gets established NHL players to buy in (Sutter in LA) is crucial to success.

When Sutter took over in LA his high powered very well paid line-up (Doughty,Kopitar, Williams, Brown,Penner and Richards) was winning exactly as much as the Flames... they made the #8 spot 5 pts ahead of the Flames.

Doughty had just signed the 8 year 56M contract and was playing really bad.

Coaches that get the best players to play to their potential have teams that win.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nothing to do with age as much as professional and financial security.

If Baertschi got a big head ... Hartley (or Burke) can put him in his place.... instead of you making 900K this year you are going to be making 300k and maybe 60K next year.

There is over half of the Flames roster that you can't use this as leverage.

If an established NHL player sees himself sacrificing future earnings to fit into the system (more checking, less goal scoring) the worst you can do is bench him or threaten to trade him (if he doesn't have a NTC).

A coach that gets established NHL players to buy in (Sutter in LA) is crucial to success.

When Sutter took over in LA his high powered very well paid line-up (Doughty,Kopitar, Williams, Brown,Penner and Richards) was winning exactly as much as the Flames... they made the #8 spot 5 pts ahead of the Flames.

Doughty had just signed the 8 year 56M contract and was playing really bad.

Coaches that get the best players to play to their potential have teams that win.

Doughty was struggling that year because he missed all of training camp in a holdout. That's not uncommon. Training camps are important.

Name a vet who showed up in poor condition for camp this year. There were several for sure last year (Sven among them). Right now, the team is buying in. They are playing very well defensively in the pre-season, and the combo of Hiller and Ramo should be a very stablizing influence on this young team.

Now in the event the wheels completely fall off, by all means, fire Hartley and back up the money truck to Mike Babcock's house.

Our best player since Bob Hartley took over has been Mark Giordano. He's unquestionably better in every respect since Bob arrived. Our next best player has been TJ Brodie. Our best forward has been Mikael Backlund. Keenan and Brent couldn't get anything out of him, but Hartley has transformed him into a guy that could get upwards of $5m on his next deal.

If retreads like Seto and Jones don't thrive under Hartley, that's on them. As the man says every day, 'everything earned, nothing given'.