Seattle Will Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hr By 2020; Automatic Annual 2.4% Increases

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Meanwhile in Calgary....

$420k!!!! And it's sold!

Holy crap!!!

2300sqft
4bed
$339,000
built 2011

[PIMking]

3bed 2 bath
1400 sqft
$120k

that would be perfect for a small family and afforadble

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Holy crap!!!

2300sqft
4bed
$339,000
built 2011

Sure that may be bigger and have a bigger yard, but it doesn't come with beautiful unfinished landscaping, and the guarantee that you'll be looking at serious damage at the very least if your neighbors house is on fire.

[PIMking]

so throughout this ordeal we've came to understand each other better. I didn't like it because I'm use to living in an area where it doesn't cost much to live and you guys live in an area where it costs an arm and a leg to live and see that it fits to raise the min wage.

just out of curiosity I have roughly 18.3% of my check taken out for taxes what is it in Canada?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PIMking

so throughout this ordeal we've came to understand each other better. I didn't like it because I'm use to living in an area where it doesn't cost much to live and you guys live in an area where it costs an arm and a leg to live and see that it fits to raise the min wage.

just out of curiosity I have roughly 18.3% of my check taken out for taxes what is it in Canada?

If you made $40k in Alberta, your average tax rate would be about 16.5%.

http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax...4-Personal-Tax

at $25k, it would be less than 11.5%

[PIMking]

Well mines including social security too

[nik-]

On a $25000 salary paid semi monthly, your total deductions would be $157 per pay resulting in $883.61 net

On a $40000 salary paid semi monthly, your total deductions would be $345.85 per pay resulting in $1320.81 net.

Total deductions include taxes, Employment insurance and Canada Pension Plan.

[nik-]

pdoc homie

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/esrvc-srvce.../pdoc-eng.html

[Vulcan]

Does your Alberta income tax also include basic health care coverage now?

[firebug]

Lost in all of this is that an employer could, you know, train their employees to make them more productive.

Just because someone is 'low-skill' doesn't mean they are an idiot.

That's why when minimum wages are increased it has not, historically, resulted in a net loss of employment. Although maybe this next time will be different than all the previous times ;-)

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by firebug

Lost in all of this is that an employer could, you know, train their employees to make them more productive.

That's a very odd thing to say.

Do you seriously believe that McDonald's, one of the most efficient restaurants in the world, hasn't developed one of the best processes in order to flip burgers? They have entire training departments dedicated to things like that, they have industrial engineering departments devoted to doing time and motion studies to ensure they are not wasting hours.

Just because your wage rises 20%, does not make you 20% more productive.

Just because someone is 'low-skill' doesn't mean they are an idiot.

As someone who has hired plenty of people for 'low skill' jobs in Calgary... It might not be completely true, but it isn't far from the truth either. Lots of people that are hired have the career cap of "cashier".

The retail / food service industry is entering a time of crisis right now, where the current group of managers will be retiring within the next 3-5 years and their replacements are nowhere in sight. If you want to become an assistant manager and eventually Store Manager at a retail outlet, now is the time. Those jobs don't pay badly either (a good store manager earns 100k+ with bonus).

[strombad]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

If you want to become an assistant manager and eventually Store Manager at a retail outlet, now is the time. Those jobs don't pay badly either (a good store manager earns 100k+ with bonus).

Smells like BS to me. Do you have any actual evidence regarding any store retail manager that pulls over 100k a year? Because I've never seen it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by strombad

Smells like BS to me. Do you have any actual evidence regarding any store retail manager that pulls over 100k a year? Because I've never seen it.

Futureshop store manager, Richmond.

[strombad]

On glassdoor it looks like 60-70 for store managers, 70-80 for general managers.

Still, hey, if the potential is there why not. Retail is the worst.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by strombad

Smells like BS to me. Do you have any actual evidence regarding any store retail manager that pulls over 100k a year? Because I've never seen it.

Well, I actually hire grocery store managers and the range is 80-120k, with a bonus potential of 50% of your salary.

Not all retail is equal, if you work at a Club Monaco in a mall, you won't have the same income potential as someone supervising almost 200 people.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

That's a very odd thing to say.

Do you seriously believe that McDonald's, one of the most efficient restaurants in the world, hasn't developed one of the best processes in order to flip burgers? They have entire training departments dedicated to things like that, they have industrial engineering departments devoted to doing time and motion studies to ensure they are not wasting hours.

Just because your wage rises 20%, does not make you 20% more productive.



As someone who has hired plenty of people for 'low skill' jobs in Calgary... It might not be completely true, but it isn't far from the truth either. Lots of people that are hired have the career cap of "cashier".

The retail / food service industry is entering a time of crisis right now, where the current group of managers will be retiring within the next 3-5 years and their replacements are nowhere in sight. If you want to become an assistant manager and eventually Store Manager at a retail outlet, now is the time. Those jobs don't pay badly either (a good store manager earns 100k+ with bonus).

McDonalds is just amazing when it comes to processes. And if order only stock items of the menu (no changes or ranching it up like springs1) you get exactly the same thing every time. It has the highest quality of almost any business. (Note I am defining quality in the business sense of things being done the same way everytime everywhere delivering the same result rather than the common definition of good)

If we could get every business to run like a mcdonalds our efficincy would be through the roof.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is the mechanism through which minimum wage laws increase unemployment among minorities?

I did in my post. If you cannot provide an economic benefit that exceeds the minimum wage (and additional employment costs), a job will not be created. Likewise, the benefit of automation is increased if the cost/benefit is surpassed.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That article you posted is full of holes, factual and logical.

This gentleman has spent his life researching economics. Perhaps you might look further into his works than one article.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

White south african's favoured a minimum wage for unionized employees because it was ILLEGAL for blacks to unionize (or even assemble peacefully). It had nothing to do with wages, there were ALL KINDS of different government policies involved that took care of all that for them. Mining workers, their bosses and their companies headquartered in South Africa were interested in a minimum wage for mining unions because it also kept white wages high, increasing the social divide between races.

Why don’t we keep this discussion to within our current North American impacts are occurring, versus utilization of old policies on a backward culture. SA has NOTHING to do with current North American policies, and is primordial in nature at best.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That he doesn't bother to separate the government policies enforcing racism from the government policies intended to curb it shows an utter lack of ability in attempting to reason through an argument. That's the sort of argument you come up with when you have a conclusion and do research that re-enforces it.

Funny, that reminds me of the IPCC. Now, as to the enforcing/curbing aspect, that sounds like trying to drive your car with both the brake and gas pedals pushed. Or taking multiple medications to offset the side effects of each other, while not curing the problem itself. Waste of resources.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That a historically unequal and largely irrelevant minimum wage has precious little to do with efforts to reform the system, he's taking a classically flawed libertarian view of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He argues forcefully, but not firmly. The article reads like an economist doing history; the summation and position are barely supported at all, while no time or space is devoted to alternative narratives. Basic historiographical fail

Man the indoctrination runs deep here. Ho Lee Fuuuuuuuuuu… you know the rest….

This IS the “alternative narrative”. This IS the argument that goes against the grain of what many here have not only been taught but espouse. But you poo-poo it away as “classically flawed”. And yes, he is an economist what has spent his LIFE studying history and the economic impacts over time. Of course it should read like that. That is a GOOD thing! However good hearted one is who wants the government to “do something” rarely will find that the results of said action are as planned, and in fact the unintended consequences can be worse. How dare someone study and report on this. How dare they call out the ineffectiveness of it all. It must be, what is that phrase… “Basic historiographical fail”. Wait, that is exactly what you are doing yourself. I see you have posted more, so I will continue there.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is part of the tragedy of the commons.

Congratulations, you gave me my first WTF moment in ten words or less. Let’s explore this.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Wal-Mart doesn't sell things for cheap because people love deals and Walmart loves slim margins, they sell things for cheap because people NEED things for cheap. The people who shop at Walmart are looking for deals because they have tight budgets, and need things like dish soap, and tupperware containers and snacks for their kids lunches.

Let me get this straight. We are in a minimum wage thread. A consumer has X many after-tax dollars to spend on needs or perhaps even wants. This consumer needs products A and B. They can get both at Walmart, or get A OR B at Safeway. The consumer exchanges his/her after-tax dollars voluntarily to Walmart, who in turn voluntarily exchanges products A AND B to the consumer. Both parties are happy. The only loser in this scenario is Safeway. If Walmart wasn’t there, then the consumer, in order to fulfil their needs would have to earn at least double (remember progressive taxation) in order to buy the equivalent at Safeway.

Remind me again how Walmart is the bad guy here….

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Wal-Mart is not just driving down wages, they are a product OF them. Walmart takes off from I think something like 250 stores in 1980 to over 1000 in 1988 and something like 1400 by 1990. Now, obviously, their growth has increased dramatically since then, but, things like 'Sams club' etc, the rapid brand expansion, don't start taking off until after Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union in 1982, and the landscape of labour changed dramatically in the US.

You really should get into designing roller coasters. The drop in intellect there was absolutely astounding! But hey, perhaps those traffic controllers needing cheap Tupperware fuelled Walmart’s growth.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

People need to go to Walmart because they can't afford to go somewhere with a higher margin. It's not a choice. Walmart, to their credit, understand that further depressing wages on a national scale is good for their bottom line. Wouldn't it be great if people couldn't afford to go to Best Buy anymore to buy a TV? Or Safeway to buy their groceries?

LOL, Bin Dar Dun Dat. So your argument is that in order to pay higher prices, we NEED higher wages. Wow. Trickle up poverty anyone?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The only thing that is a challenge to them, really, is Amazon, who are outbidding them through mechanization and standardization. Basically, the only way you can compete with Walmart's wages is by not paying ANY.

Again, congrats. Keep pumping up that minimum wage to the point that it is inefficient to hire inexperienced workers who would in turn gain experience and be more “in demand” for subsequent higher paying jobs. Keep pushing demands to the point that automation is the clear choice to meet consumer desires.

3D printing anyone?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I have read his first book on affirmative action in an academic capacity and was not impressed. I don't have much of a scholarly critique, nor do I think I am in the position to give one, but, (and this may be some bias) it reads like many books attempting to utilize economics to explain human behaviour; often those sorts of answers are not found in that field.

Again, you get things ass backwards. It is not economics explaining human behaviour. It is human behaviour explaining economics. Human Action by Mises is another good read on the subject matter. But it would be like Kryptonite to your “Superman” knowledge…. Sorry, indoctrination.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The state is the vessel in which CURRENT capitalism functions.

Fixed (and I hate doing that). We have crony capitalism right now. Crapitalism. Big government, big corporations.. fascism at its best. The big corporations do everything in their power (government influence, lawmaking, etc) in order to keep competition OUT, not promote it. You want to talk about tragedy of the commons… yikes. The state vessel needs to be torpedoed.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The rules of the game are determined by the state, hence, whatever 'economics' transpire within that system are inherently informed by the state like the odds in a casino are controlled by the house. It's intellectually dishonest to not assign appropriate valuations to judgements in that regard. As I mentioned in my first reply in regards to South Africa, it is not the ECONOMICS of the situation which is the determining factor, it is the POLITICS. Yes, money informs politics, but, money does not dictate politics. It was a bunch of racist whites who prevented blacks from associating in groups and treated them as close to a commodity as you can in an 18th/19th/20th century white colony. That is the reason their wages were depressed, not for some Friedman-informed free market utopia where blacks were an economic danger to South African whites.

Spoken like our current sociopathic mafia rulers. The same ones that the raping and enslavement of the unborn are justified for our current welfare/warfare “state”. The dumbing down of the masses has obviously worked.

White on black slavery sure seems to get the headlines while historically black on black slavery was far more abundant. NEITHER were good. Their labour was pillaged. Today? Our labour is also pillaged, just to a lesser extent. Got to keep those tax farm animals happy. Give ‘em an iPhone. Let them play xBox. Give them the illusion that they are free to choose. The “Greater Good” fallacy yields Alison Redfords.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

'Wages' is such an utterly auxiliary concern that in my opinion it is insulting to include it as an argument.

Really? Would “entitlements” be more of your liking? Wages are a measurement of your economic value. As this is a hockey forum, why aren’t you screaming bloody blue murder that the “minimum” wage of NHL players is either:

A) WAY too high <insert whatever argument here>
B) WAY too low, cause he might have to shop for a Kia, instead of a Mercedes. OK, maybe not a Kia, but you get the drift.

Sports salaries, like CEO salaries, have skyrocketed under Keynesian policies, in conjunction with “bribe me” politicians and voters. Easy money has been a primary catalyst to the wealth gap we currently are experiencing. When those that “rule” us act not for the betterment of the little guy, but for those that can keep him/her in power you have a twin power of corruption that simply feeds on the other until it collapses. They pay lip service to said little guy, at best. With things like… ohhh, minimum wages….

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is my issue with both yours and his argument and generally with the arguments of those that describe themselves as 'libertarian'. I'm not trying to cast a huge brush here, it's an ideological issue. The idea is to neuter a policy project or direction, and then point to it's inefficiency or lack of return on investment. Sowell does the same thing in regards to school vouchers. Again, I can't critique him toooooo hard here because I am not intimately versed with that issue, however, it's an example of the conclusion based research I believe he is guilty of.

Yet central planning is not an issue for you? What perverse logic. Instead of learning from the past and freeing people from being “neutered” WITH illogical policies, you want MORE of it?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The minimum wage SUCKS. It is ARTIFICIALLY low. It's held there by the mechanism for lobbying the federal government and state legislatures which is of benefit to accumulated private money. It is held there by those with a vested interest in not paying higher wages. It isn't rocket science to figure out what part of the employer/employee relationship that is.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you think politicians are buying votes with the minimum wage where it is, I suggest you reconsider what votes they are buying. I will give a you a start, it is NOT the populous.

Artificially LOW? Are you mad? The higher you raise them the more people fall UNDER that bar and will NOT be employable. THAT isn’t rocket science. Price out labour and you will have far more automation.

Try to have a heart? Good luck.

[strombad]

[RougeUnderoos]

Perfect. Ha ha.