I'm really not sure WHAT you're arguing here. No offence, but you seem to be throwing an awful lot of words at the wall without saying too much of anything, which is likely why you have to repeatedly respond with "Of course that's true, who says it isn't?"
What exact point are you trying to make, in a sentence or two?
Racism isn't just people calling other people names or being pulled over for driving a BMW. The real harm that is caused is by systematic and institutional bias that large groups of people work against on a daily basis.
This doesn't just apply to race, but also applies to gender and sexual orientation as well.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
The Following User Says Thank You to Rathji For This Useful Post:
I think you are misreading the article and are getting hung up on the word racism and your understanding of it.
This might explain how they are using the word and where your confusion is coming from.
I don't disagree with your definition being the common one, btw.
[QUOTE ]Racial Prejudice can be directed at white people (i.e. white people can't dance) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship of power.[\QUOTE]
From Webster's dictionary:
Racism:
Poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race.
The belief that some races of people are better than others.
Pretty cut and dry. I think it is you who is confused about the word and it's definition.
Poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race.
The belief that some races of people are better than others.
Pretty cut and dry. I think it is you who is confused about the word and it's definition.
I said I agreed with you on the common definition, I was just pointing out the article was distinguishing between racism and racial prejudice as different things.
This, from an academic viewpoint, is likely an important distinction.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
It could be, and black people are more likely to have been raised in poverty, so it doesn't surprise me that there would be a lot of overlap.
It's the reason that they are me likely to be raised in poverty that is rooted in systematic racial discrimination.
So by your rationale if tomorrow there ceases to be any racist people on the planet black people will still be victims of systematic racial discrimination because of past acts by people that are long dead?
So by your rationale if tomorrow there ceases to be any racist people on the planet black people will still be victims of systematic racial discrimination because of past acts by people that are long dead?
The system is set up as more of a benefit to white people than black people, so if the system didn't change then sure they would still have these things to work against.
However, the system is kept in place by racism, so if no one was racist, then the system would change very quickly I would imagine.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
The system is set up as more of a benefit to white people than black people, so if the system didn't change then sure they would still have these things to work against.
However, the system is kept in place by racism, so if no one was racist, then the system would change very quickly I would imagine.
So what about "the system" in somewhere like Zimbabwe set up to benefit black people more than white. Is that systematic racism?
So what about "the system" in somewhere like Zimbabwe set up to benefit black people more than white. Is that systematic racism?
Yes, assuming that black people have a distinct power advantage over white people.
In South Africa, under apartheid for example, is an example where the minority had political power over the majority, where what you are suggesting would not be true.
I don't know anything about Zimbabwe in this regard, so your guess is likely better than mine.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
If they said that institutional racism cannot be applied to whites in Canada, then I might agree. But when they try to say that racial prejudice on whites from non-whites at the street level, does not equal racism, then I have a big problem with that.
If anything, their definition is trying to over simplify the issue and ignores that there are different types and degrees of racism, and that hierarchies exist even in Canada that don't include whites at the top. Why do they get to arbitrarily decide that the only hierarchies that matter are the ones with whites at the top, and not individual hierarchies at the community level that do not include whites?
Honestly, their attempt to redefine what racism is, is really trying to solve a problem that wasn't there. The dictionary definitions are more than adequate.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FlamesAddiction For This Useful Post:
I said I agreed with you on the common definition, I was just pointing out the article was distinguishing between racism and racial prejudice as different things.
This, from an academic viewpoint, is likely an important distinction.
But they aren't different things. One is a product of the other, and one cannot exist without the other. They are indistinguishable as separate things, but rather Racial Prejudice is simply part of racism.
It's not an important discussion, it's strange attempt at over-intellectualising very basic concepts that are easily understood. What's the purpose of the discussion, what exactly to they hope to accomplish?
You said that you're arguing that racism isn't just calling names or pulling somewhere over, but nobody is arguing otherwise. Both calling someone a racist slur and systematic oppression are racism, you don't need to be an academic to know that, it's pretty obvious.
Is there a system in Canada where white people are not on top?
Honestly curious, because I can't think of one aside from the prison system.
Does it even matter when it comes to defining what racism is?
Probably the vast majority of racist incidents happen between individuals independent of any "system". There are certainly communities and social hierarchies within those communities where white people are not at the top. If you are limiting to just legal and political systems, then probably not (aside from maybe First Nations).
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
But they aren't different things. One is a product of the other, and one cannot exist without the other. They are indistinguishable as separate things, but rather Racial Prejudice is simply part of racism.
If one is part of the other then they are not the same, which is kind of what different is.
Different is not the same as mutually exclusive.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
Probably the vast majority of racist incidents happen between individuals independent of any "system". There are certainly communities and social hierarchies within those communities where white people are not at the top. If you are limiting to just legal and political systems, then probably not (aside from maybe First Nations).
Power is almost always political or legal, but I am willing to consider a situation where non white people have some type of power over white people in a community in Canada that causes problems related to systematic racism.
Would be an interesting thing to learn about, so I welcome you pointing some of them out.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
If one is part of the other then they are not the same, which is kind of what different is.
Different is not the same as mutually exclusive.
What? If one is part of another, it IS the same. That's what being part of something is.
The arm is part of the human body. If you say "something hit me" or "something hit my arm" you aren't saying anything different. If you get hit in the arm, your "human body" is getting hit.
Alberta is part of Canada. All Albertans are Canadians. They are the same as Canadians, despite being a "part" of Canada.
I think you are experience a very basic failure in understanding how these concepts work. Racial Prejudice does not differ from Racism because it IS Racism, nor does Racism differ from Racial Prejudice for the very same reason.
What? If one is part of another, it IS the same. That's what being part of something is.
The arm is part of the human body. If you say "something hit me" or "something hit my arm" you aren't saying anything different. If you get hit in the arm, your "human body" is getting hit.
Alberta is part of Canada. All Albertans are Canadians. They are the same as Canadians, despite being a "part" of Canada.
I think you are experience a very basic failure in understanding how these concepts work. Racial Prejudice does not differ from Racism because it IS Racism, nor does Racism differ from Racial Prejudice for the very same reason.
If Alberta was the same as Canada, then by going to any location in Canada, you would also be going to a place in Alberta, which is clearly not the case.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
If Alberta was the same as Canada, then by going to any location in Canada, you would also be going to a place in Alberta, which is clearly not the case.
That's not how it works, again, you're failing to understand the concept at a basic level.
Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario... they are all different, but they are all Canada. When you say Canada, you are referring to all of them, thus, they are not different from Canada (but rather different than the parts that make it up).
Racial Prejudice, Institutional racism, racial genocide... these are all different things, but they are all Racism. When you refer to racism, you refer to all of them, and when you're referring to any of them you're referring to Racism, that's why they aren't different.
The Following User Says Thank You to strombad For This Useful Post:
If racial prejudice is the same thing as institutional racism and racial genocide, then it is the person who wrote that explanation in the article who is an idiot.
Glad we straightened that out for you.
__________________
"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
I recommend making a film using two white guys to play black women using all the black stereotypes possible for the sake of low-brow humor and see what type of reaction there is.
Like I said, I don't personally take offense to any of this, but you can't deny that it is racism. And actually, denying that it's racist is exactly my point in that paragraph.
If you're going to use "White Chicks" as an example to support your premise here, then definitely it's hypersensitivity. That movie's hilarious. Besides, wasn't that movie from about 10 years ago? So, it's not exactly among current events.
The Wayans family have been equal opportunity at stereotyping in their films and with the "In Living Color" TV show. Here's one you should watch:
