Malaysia Jet missing-Officials conclude crash in Indian ocean/all lives presumed lost

[Acey]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Airbus 340

A330*

Originally Posted by oilyfan

I have always questioned why there hasnt been a move to fully automated data exchange between the aircraft and the ground - supplying operating information. I realize that this is an immense amount of data - the transfer part of equation is the problem, you would have to use satellites or transfer an this immense amount of data. At some point in time we will see a move to this.

It's for the same reason we're using relatively ancient VHF communications... aviation tech is somewhat slow moving forward because of the extensive certification processes to implement something worldwide, and thus extensive cost.

[Righteous1]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

Is there some sort of "Bermuda Triangle" on that side of the world?

Has there been reports of other crafts vanishing around the last known co-ordinates?

the devils sea or somthing

[RedCoffee]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One of the reasons I personally don't think it's terrorism, is that you'd think someone would've claimed responsibility by now. People typically commit these acts to get attention towards their agenda. Dying in anonymity seems a little pointless.

I agree.

Two passports stolen in Thailand and the bearers apparently travelling together now suggests to me that it is more likely to be illegal immigration. Since the passports should have been red flagged at checkin, it seems too amateurish for a terrorist operation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One of the reasons I personally don't think it's terrorism, is that you'd think someone would've claimed responsibility by now. People typically commit these acts to get attention towards their agenda. Dying in anonymity seems a little pointless.

True, but it could be possible that they left letter or something behind waiting to be found. There is also the possibility that more attacks are coming and they don't want to claim anything before it is complete.

But terrorism seems unlikely for other reasons as well.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One of the reasons I personally don't think it's terrorism, is that you'd think someone would've claimed responsibility by now. People typically commit these acts to get attention towards their agenda. Dying in anonymity seems a little pointless.

Way too early to say that. Operationally the group could be moving assets before they declare.

If no one claims responsibility in a week then we can safely say it wasn't.

The Crucial thing is the black box.

It went off the air quickly and without the plane declaring an emergency or mechanical fault. They screams all of a sudden to me which declares either an explosion or a massive electronic failure.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by RedCoffee

I agree.

Two passports stolen in Thailand and the bearers apparently travelling together now suggests to me that it is more likely to be illegal immigration. Since the passports should have been red flagged at checkin, it seems too amateurish for a terrorist operation.

If it was a terrorist plot, test runs would likely have been done in the past to test for and detect weaknesses in airport/airline screening procedures. Like hackers, you scour for a security weakness, probe it, and then exploit it.

Not saying that this is what it was, who knows at this point. It definitely raises suspicions, though, especially coming so soon after the knife attack in China just before this.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

You mean turbulence right?

Haha. Yep.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Crucial thing is the black box.

It went off the air quickly and without the plane declaring an emergency or mechanical fault. They screams all of a sudden to me which declares either an explosion or a massive electronic failure.

I can only speak to the electrical side of things, but I don't have any reason to believe it will play any huge role.

A massive electronic failure doesn't send an airplane crashing to the ground, nor does a complete loss of power from its engines for that matter (which would cause an almost total loss of electrical power, the remaining sources being the auxiliary power unit, battery power, and the ram air turbine). You may recall the Airbus A330 (similarly sized) which was able to glide for 15 minutes to a safe landing. Yes, electrical/power failures will ruin your day, but not instant death. Additionally, without there being some other issue, airplanes with multiple redundancies like the 777 don't just spontaneously have total electrical failures. The electrical system I have studied is the 767, but there are many similarities and improvements in the 777.

I'll add that a massive structural failure might not necessarily have been due to an explosion. I would call something like this flight a non-explosive massive structural failure.

There are 2 black boxes, one records cockpit voices and the other records thousands of flight data parameters. Both have underwater beacons. There is no guarantee of usable data.

[oilyfan]

Another example of a massive structural failure was the JAL 123 crash, the largest single airplane loss of life.

That plane lost its entire rear bulkhead and with it the vertical stabilizer, causing explosive decompression, complete loss of hydraulics (an unheard of event as it took out all 4 redundant systems at the same time). But despite this the crew was able keep the plane flying for 32 minutes, issue distress calls and coordinate with ATC. The Malaysian plane did none of that. I suspect an explosion.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by RedCoffee

I agree.

Two passports stolen in Thailand and the bearers apparently travelling together now suggests to me that it is more likely to be illegal immigration. Since the passports should have been red flagged at checkin, it seems too amateurish for a terrorist operation.

This.

I cannot imagine someone going through the whole planning process to take down an aircraft and then risk the entire operation on getting caught with fake passports.

Large numbers of illegal workers, as well as criminal syndicates, are known to move between Malaysia and neighboring countries such as Thailand and others in SE Asia. And as we know, the two suspect passports were stolen in Thailand.

I would speculate that it's just a coincidence. And the media is just jumping on it, and throwing sensationalism spins all over it, cause that crap sells.

I'll take "Incapacitated Flight Crew due to Rapid Decompression from a Fuselage Failure" for 1000 please, Alex

[Hack&Lube]

In these situations, who pays for the costly investigation? Often, many countries take part in the search and rescue operations but it seems that the country whose jurisdiction the crash/wreckage takes place in usually foots the bill.

IE: Canada spent 4 years and about $60 million dollars on the Swissair Flight 111 disaster even though the flight was from JFK to Geneva.

In open waters, it might be optimistic to hope for recovery of black boxes or wreckage for some time. It took 2 years to find the wreckage and recorder of Air France 447.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

In open waters, it might be optimistic to hope for recovery of black boxes or wreckage for some time. It took 2 years to find the wreckage and recorder of Air France 447.

Recorders, plural.

This water: 100 feet deep
Air France water: 15,000 feet deep

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

I think it's amazing that we can track and control and vehicle on Mars, but can't figure out where this plane is.

just imagine how much your ticket would be in airlines had that same technology

also the vehicle on mars isn't in a million different pieces and was not subject to incredible forces

[oilyfan]

The AF447 recorders search was a monumental task, the proverbial needle in a haystack. 15,000 feet deep, far away from land support, in underwater hilly conditions. But they persisted, and found them. This search will be way easier.

[T@T]

I can't believe this plane hasn't been found yet, the FDR should have started the underwater locator beacon and that can be located by satellite these days.

Strange.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by T@T

I can't believe this plane hasn't been found yet, the FDR should have started the underwater locator beacon and that can be located by satellite these days.

Strange.

You figure with all of the satellites orbiting earth right know one of them would see these planes go down.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

just imagine how much your ticket would be in airlines had that same technology

also the vehicle on mars isn't in a million different pieces and was not subject to incredible forces

Part of that was just being facetious.

The same part of me that says: the black box is supposedly indestructible, right?
Throw an iPhone in that fella and turn on Find my iPhone

I know that's not entirely plausible, but think there must be a better way that how it currently works. But, then again...I fail to see the bigger picture in many of life's wonders.

Also...
For my fellow aviation geeks...can someone remind me, please:
Does an ELT have to be manually turned on, or does it activate upon submersion? And what would the battery life be? For some reason my meory is saying 8 hours?

[Bigtime]

Submersion and certain extreme g-loads will set off the ELT.

[Art Vandelay]

http://m.us.wsj.com/article_email/SB...DkyWj?mobile=n

Cost is the main reason why airlines have not gone to "Live Black Box" technology.

[1stLand]

My theory is that it was Shot down by missiles.

North Korea?

Planes have been mistakenly or purposely shot down by missiles before.