He has a point. Teams should be compensated for injuries.
I'm pretty surprised that the NHL has gone to 5 Olympics now and have never demanded this.
It isn't compensation, per se, but Hockey Canada had to take insurance out on these guys. Tavares' salary for the rest of the season will come out of that policy, not the Islanders.
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It isn't compensation, per se, but Hockey Canada had to take insurance out on these guys. Tavares' salary for the rest of the season will come out of that policy, not the Islanders.
True, but what if he never recovers to the level he was currently playing at? If he doesn't get back to a player who is possibly top 3 in the league they have received no benefit and have committed millions of dollars to then they have been screwed by a tournament. There are many players who have never recovered from knee injuries to achieve their previous levels of play.
We know players get hurt all the time and he could have gotten hurt playing for the Islanders, but the big difference in that scenario is he gets hurt where he earns his living and the company (Islanders) are prepared for that. What they aren't prepared for is losing the asset for no benefit to their bottom line. If the Canadian (or any other) National team wants to sign these guys to contracts for hundreds of millions of dollars, then great. I have never heard any player say they grew up dreaming of playing for the Olympic hockey team. It is a nice perk that they get from having the ability to play in the league they actually dream of playing in, the NHL.
Most NHLers have clauses in their contract that they're not allowed to do stuff like snowboard and play basketball in the off-season for just this reason. Their employers have invested millions in them.
How old are you? Because I can remember the Canada Cup and World Cup, and there was just as much hype among hockey fans and players. It was the only best-on-best tournament in the world, and every player knew it. Fans and commentators speculated for months about who would be on the rosters. Players were absolutely jacked. The quality of play was fantastic. In fact, it was better hockey than the Olympics because there were no weak-sister teams. Just the top six countries in the world. Also, a best-of-three finals beats the crap out of a single-game.
If the World Cup is restored as the best-on-best tournament in hockey, it will have every bit as much credibility and prestige in the eyes of the players as the Olympics do now. And more than an Olympics without NHL players would have. And that doesn't just go for North American players.
I too remember the Canada Cup - and loved it.
However, this statement perfectly summarizes the debate IMO. Yes, a Canada Cup/World Cup tournament is equally as awesome among hockey fans, but the Olympics have that, AND they bring everyone else into the fold.
There simply is no comparison: Olympics = everything a World Cup/Canada Cup can be PLUS it's the Olympics (meaning millions of other people are also watching)
Likely a nail in the coffin for 2018. JT may never be the same again. NHL has little incentive to send its players in all honesty. They have incentive to promote a best on best, but on their own terms where they get all the revenue and also pay for the costs.
However, this statement perfectly summarizes the debate IMO. Yes, a Canada Cup/World Cup tournament is equally as awesome among hockey fans, but the Olympics have that, AND they bring everyone else into the fold.
There simply is no comparison: Olympics = everything a World Cup/Canada Cup can be PLUS it's the Olympics (meaning millions of other people are also watching)
There have actually been three issues raised here around an end to NHL participation in the Olympics:
Will top players abandon the NHL to play in the Olympics? I don't think this will happen. Ovechkin's threat was because the Olympics are in the Russia. Who's going to walk out on their NHL team to play in an Olympics in France or Norway?
Will there be any comparable best-on-best tournament for hockey fans to enjoy? I believe a World Cup would actually be a better-quality hockey tournament for hockey fans to watch.
Will the sport of hockey lose exposure to potential new fans? Yes, I think it would. But I do find it interesting how a great many hockey fans in Canada sneer at Bettman's attempts to grow the NHL in the U.S. sunbelt. Most of the people who tune in to Olympic hockey aren't any more likely to become NHL fans than that proverbial Nascar fan in Atlanta.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 02-21-2014 at 08:07 AM.
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^I agree. And I think over-time the World Cup, or whatever iteration of it, would come to have more and more meaning.
Execution is the key.
The World Cup of Baseball thingy doesn't engage fans because of timing and poor execution.
Do it right and people will care about it.
No reason why it can't be grown to have as much or more meaning than the Olympics.
As for the Olympics some of my fondest memories was watching a rag-tag group of Canadians playing in Europe, over the hill NHLers and other assorted randoms try to come together to win a medal for our country. I had more emotional attachment to some of those teams than the team this year.
Agreed but they had the World Cup already and got rid of it. It will take a few editions to re-establish that sort of tournament again. Its also difficult to have a tournament when you need a required result Canada or US in the final. What if Canada had lost the semifinal in Calgary in 1984? Anyone watch a CCCP-Sverige final? What if 2004 was a Czech-Suomi final?
I like a World Cup too and think they should have never went to the Olympics, especially under these conditions (full IOC control) but now they have been to the Olympics it's difficult to switch back. So many Canada jerseys in the office today, including me
The NHL can't have it both ways, they either go to the Olympics to grow the sport but sacrifice some money and possible injury every 4 years or have their own tournament and rake in the dollars but don't get the Olympic buzz from it. They made this decision in 1998, they can't whine about it.
The World Cup of baseball doesn't engage fans because the US sends their F team. Arencibia at catcher? Come on!
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Last edited by GirlySports; 02-21-2014 at 08:52 AM.
^I agree. And I think over-time the World Cup, or whatever iteration of it, would come to have more and more meaning.
Execution is the key.
The World Cup of Baseball thingy doesn't engage fans because of timing and poor execution.
Do it right and people will care about it.
No reason why it can't be grown to have as much or more meaning than the Olympics.
As for the Olympics some of my fondest memories was watching a rag-tag group of Canadians playing in Europe, over the hill NHLers and other assorted randoms try to come together to win a medal for our country. I had more emotional attachment to some of those teams than the team this year.
There's no way that anyone outside of Canada is going to watch or care about a world cup of hockey in the summer. They'd have one or two and abandon it again. Pulling NHLers out of the Olympics would be the end of meaningful best against best international hockey for many years.
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There's no way that anyone outside of Canada is going to watch or care about a world cup of hockey in the summer. They'd have one or two and abandon it again. Pulling NHLers out of the Olympics would be the end of meaningful best against best international hockey for many years.
Unlikely on both counts.
Certainly Canadians would care a lot more than any other nation, but Americans, Russians, Swedes, etc. would watch.
The Canada Cup/original World Cup were "meaningful best on best" tournaments held in September. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean these nations won't take it as seriously in the future as they did in the past. (give or take the early Soviet teams.)
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Certainly Canadians would care a lot more than any other nation, but Americans, Russians, Swedes, etc. would watch.
The Canada Cup/original World Cup were "meaningful best on best" tournaments held in September. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean these nations won't take it as seriously in the future as they did in the past. (give or take the early Soviet teams.)
I would be happy to see the Canada Cup come back.
BTW, mods, maybe we should split this off to another thread discussion possible future best on best competition.
I also played the hell out of the 45 when I was a kid
Last edited by undercoverbrother; 02-21-2014 at 09:40 AM.
As for the Olympics some of my fondest memories was watching a rag-tag group of Canadians playing in Europe, over the hill NHLers and other assorted randoms try to come together to win a medal for our country. I had more emotional attachment to some of those teams than the team this year.
Agreed. With a World Cup of hockey, Canadian fans would still get their best-on-best tournament. But they would also still get an Olympic hockey tournament, one where the Canadian team would the hard-working underdog like Latvia or Switzerland. That can be a lot of fun to cheer for.
If they go to the Olympics without their club's permission they are doing exactly that.
NHL teams do not have to pay players who get injured outside of club authorized events.
Better yet, if they leave without permission and they get suspended by their NHL club the IIHF will recognize the suspension and not allow said player to participate in the Olympics.
Arthur Staple @StapeNewsday
#Isles GM Garth Snow spitting mad over Tavares' Olympic injury: "Are the IIHF or IOC going to reimburse our season ticket holders now?"
Arthur Staple @StapeNewsday
More Snow: "It's a joke. They want all the benefits from NHL players in Olympics and don't want to pay when our best player gets hurt."
Who is gonna refund the season ticket holders for the teams Snow has iced the past seven seasons?
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There have actually been three issues raised here around an end to NHL participation in the Olympics:
Will top players abandon the NHL to play in the Olympics? I don't think this will happen. Ovechkin's threat was because the Olympics are in the Russia. Who's going to walk out on their NHL team to play in an Olympics in France or Norway?
Will there be any comparable best-on-best tournament for hockey fans to enjoy? I believe a World Cup would actually be a better-quality hockey tournament for hockey fans to watch.
Will the sport of hockey lose exposure to potential new fans? Yes, I think it would. But I do find it interesting how a great many hockey fans in Canada sneer at Bettman's attempts to grow the NHL in the U.S. sunbelt. Most of the people who tune in to Olympic hockey aren't any more likely to become NHL fans than that proverbial Nascar fan in Atlanta.
1) this is not an argument against the Olympics
2) how would it be better? (same players) I think it would be the same, except that it wouldn't have the Olympic prestige, so marginally worse
3) What is your point here? The Olympics increase exposure and bring in new fans. A world cup would not bring in any. Yes, most Olympic watchers won't become fans, but some will. Compare that to a World Cup where those same people wouldn't be watching at all, so it's guaranteed that they won't become fans.
I find this whole debate fascinating. Basically, the argument for a World Cup instead of the Olympics is that the Olympics don't really accomplish anything so what's the point? Let's just have a tournament that doesn't accomplish anything. That is just silly. The Olympics are a massive boost to every sport that is there. Pretending that it isn't is simply ignoring the truth.
How many Lugers do you think there would be without the Olympics?
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