Is Edmonton intentionally tanking?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You do have to look at developing. If you take out Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares - I'd argue Hall (and maybe RNH) were at the same level as most of these guys when they were drafted. Thinking back to their draft years... I'd have Hall ahead of Kane, Nash, Johnson, Fleury and MacKinnon... and fairly similar to Stamkos.

I think Halls flaws were showing themselves in junior. Reckless, puck hog who didn't and doesn't use his teammates well enough to be elite

[Hockey_Ninja]

I asked a bunch of Oiler fans this question. Pretty much all of them think they are just that bad. It wouldn't shock me one bit if they turned out to be intentionally tanking.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think Halls flaws were showing themselves in junior. Reckless, puck hog who didn't and doesn't use his teammates well enough to be elite

His hockey IQ has been questioned since that draft and I think, with the evidence of his play, they were justified. He's just a head down, tunnelling bull.

He's rarely questioned by Oiler fans though, same with Nugent-Hopkins. I don't know if I can blame them though, it must be a horrible mental hurdle to clear to accept that your supposed top pieces have some serious problems.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by nik-

His hockey IQ has been questioned since that draft and I think, with the evidence of his play, they were justified. He's just a head down, tunnelling bull.

I think the problem with Hall, and pretty much all of their forwards, is neither of them seem to have any leadership qualities.

All of them (even Yakupov) would probably work out just fine if they were on a team with already strong leadership and surrounded by strong minds...but on the Oilers they are just surrounded by people exactly like themselves. All those top picks and not one Toews, Landeskog, or Brown, among them to lead the pack. Perhaps Hall at least tries to play this role, but the guy just doesn't come across as being smart enough to do so effectively.

[nik-]

Lack of leadership that's not spastic (granted from an outside view, the perception of him is just throwing the occasional tantrum) and a complete lack of accountability for him, Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins from the team. I honestly feel bad for Yakupov because it's a complete "sins of the father" situation for him.

It's honestly like the Oilers are piling all the tough approach they never took with their Golden Boys onto the Russian. They'll ruin him for sure if he doesn't get out of that organization. Not that I'm excusing his all around game ... but man he gets it on a whole other level than any of the other three did.

[stignasty]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the problem with Hall, and pretty much all of their forwards, is neither of them seem to have any leadership qualities.

All of them (even Yakupov) would probably work out just fine if they were on a team with already strong leadership and surrounded by strong minds...but on the Oilers they are just surrounded by people exactly like themselves. All those top picks and not one Toews, Landeskog, or Brown, among them to lead the pack. Perhaps Hall at least tries to play this role, but the guy just doesn't come across as being smart enough to do so effectively.

That would explain giving the "C" to a player who has never stepped on the ice for the team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't know if I can blame them though, it must be a horrible mental hurdle to clear to accept that your supposed top pieces have some serious problems.

Every fanbase is guilty of this. Look at how many of the fans treat Sven on this site. The guy is a stud, even though he's looking like a dud at the AHL level. For as much crap that we give the Oilers and their fans, we aren't that much different and aren't that far behind them.

[The Hendog]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

a lot of this goes in to unlucky draft years too, not that they deserve any credit for 3 straight first overall picks, but going back to 2000 1st overall picks they just picked the worst time to suck

If you were going through this list and were told you could pick any 3 year run of 1st overall picks to build your team around I think 2010-2012 would be the least desired


2013 Nathan MacKinnon
2012 Nail Yakupov
2011 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2010 Taylor Hall
2009 John Tavares
2008 Steven Stamkos
2007 Patrick Kane
2006 Erik Johnson
2005 Sidney Crosby
2004 Alexander Ovechkin
2003 Marc-Andre Fleury
2002 Rick Nash
2001 Ilya Kovalchuk

2007-2009 would be sick!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think Halls flaws were showing themselves in junior. Reckless, puck hog who didn't and doesn't use his teammates well enough to be elite

His team won the Memorial Cup twice in a row and he pretty much single handedly dragged Greg Neimsz to being a first round draft pick (and we've seen how well that worked out)... so it wasn't much of an issue.

[Resolute 14]

The Oilers are basically a real world manifestation of Poe's Law.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You do have to look at developing. If you take out Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares - I'd argue Hall (and maybe RNH) were at the same level as most of these guys when they were drafted. Thinking back to their draft years... I'd have Hall ahead of Kane, Nash, Johnson, Fleury and MacKinnon... and fairly similar to Stamkos.

You could argue but you would still be wrong on Hall and very, very wrong on RNH being at the same level of Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares. That's laughable really. Hall is a good player but he's not that good and he will likely never be great as he doesn't have the hockey smarts. Elite players don't continually try and beat multiple defensemen by themselves. They learn how to use their teammates.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You could argue but you would still be wrong on Hall and very, very wrong on RNH being at the same level of Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares. That's laughable really. Hall is a good player but he's not that good and he will likely never be great as he doesn't have the hockey smarts. Elite players don't continually try and beat multiple defensemen by themselves. They learn how to use their teammates.

You can argue that this is a product of the system not properly developing/teaching their young players. Would Seguin be the player he is if he was brought up through the Oilers instead of the two-way system of the Bruins? My thoughts are no. The Oilers thought that these top picks would become great on their own. They were sorely mistaken.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Every fanbase is guilty of this. Look at how many of the fans treat Sven on this site. The guy is a stud, even though he's looking like a dud at the AHL level. For as much crap that we give the Oilers and their fans, we aren't that much different and aren't that far behind them.

Agreed. Flames fans are just as bad as the Oilers, Canucks or any fanbase when it comes to overrating their prospects. In what world is Mark Cundari a solid prospect except Calgary where we have been starved for any prospects to break through? The Blues didn't even blink an eye tossing him in the Bouwmeester trade. Although things have improved dramatically since the Sutter regime I still think the Flames overall prospect base is very mediocre. Not a single blue chip prospect outside of maybe Monahan. Gaudreau is very intriguing but he's going to have to prove he can overcome his small stature and have his skills translate to the NHL. Baertschi looks to have a lot of mental hurdles to overcome and he's also going to have to address his lack of optimal size. After that I see nothing that looks to be close to a sure thing NHL player which is why it's important that this team gets at the very minimum a top 3 pick this year and maybe the first overall pick next season which is the real jackpot.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You can argue that this is a product of the system not properly developing/teaching their young players. Would Seguin be the player he is if he was brought up through the Oilers instead of the two-way system of the Bruins? My thoughts are no. The Oilers thought that these top picks would become great on their own. They were sorely mistaken.

There is some merit to that but the players need to accept blame here as well. The issue with Hall is that he's not supremely skilled like Crosby where he can carry a team on his back and make everyone around him a 30 goal scorer, he lacks the hockey smarts and leadership of Jonathan Toews, he lacks the game breaking goal scoring skills of Ovechkin/Stamkos where 45 -50 goals are in the bank every year. He's a classic 2nd tier star player that has some elite tools the overall package isn't elite.

The Capitals were crap for a long time even with Jagr on their team but Ovechkin just took over that team and while he hasn't finished the job he's made them a team that makes the playoffs annually and has had some very good seasons. I simply don't buy blaming it all on the organization when we have seen elite players turn around crappy organizations. Bottom line is that the Oilers (3) 1st overall's aren't elite players.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

His team won the Memorial Cup twice in a row and he pretty much single handedly dragged Greg Neimsz to being a first round draft pick (and we've seen how well that worked out)... so it wasn't much of an issue.

Niemisz didnt play much with Hall and many credited him with being the leader on the team. Hall has a lot of speed and works hard but if you watch him he makes a lot of bad plays - sometimes they turn out good because he is working hard and going fast but he doesnt make those around him play better

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You could argue but you would still be wrong on Hall and very, very wrong on RNH being at the same level of Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares. That's laughable really. Hall is a good player but he's not that good and he will likely never be great as he doesn't have the hockey smarts. Elite players don't continually try and beat multiple defensemen by themselves. They learn how to use their teammates.

He didn't say Hall was on the same level as Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares, he said that Hall was comparable to the other 1st overall picks that happened recently.

If you take out Ovechkin, Crosby and Tavares - I'd argue Hall (and maybe RNH) were at the same level as most of these guys

[CubicleGeek]

Originally Posted by Redliner

tankiest tankers that ever tanked.

More like suckiest suckers that ever sucked.

[Badgers Nose]

As I am sure has been pointed out, they don't have to try. They just do.

That is the very definition of suck. They are so good at it that observers believe it is an act.

[Sgrath]

I believe they believe they are not trying to tank. They have a dysfunctional organisational culture which reinforces the holes in any rookies game.

Maybe it's my anti-oiler bias but I just don't think any of their top picks are smart enough to say what Monahan said here
http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/01/23...anchise-player

"I guess it's a lot different than scoring goals in junior," Monahan acknowledged after Thursday's skate at the Saddledome.
"In junior, you can just walk through the middle or score the nice goals. In the NHL, you've gotta really bear down and find ice and push your way to the net to put the puck in the net.

[CaptainCrunch]

But Monahan doesn't seem to have a toe drag to his name. How can he ever succeed