[News] Calgary Flames' struggles wearing on honcho Brian Burke

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh I understand the difference. Do you understand the difference between Phil Kessel and Mike Cammelari?

Do you have any idea how much a guy is worth at age 21 who was picked 5th overall (And that's dropping in the draft, he was as high as being ranked first overall months previous) who just had a huge breakout season?

Cammerlari is an aging, past-his-prime upcoming UFA. Apples and oranges.

Uhhhh, no one is disagreeing there. But you're the one who initiated the comparison...

Originally Posted by BigTuna

2 firsts is too much for Phil? And you guys think an aging Cammelari should fetch h at least 1 first.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Cami will fetch a 1st and decent prospect (like a hanowski or cundari)
Cami at half cap will fetch a 1st and a good prospect (like one of Pitts young d men)
Cami and a bad contract coming back will fetch a 1st and a couple of good prospects.

If the bad contract expires in 2016 the you can do this again in a couple of years. Scouring cap geek, I see some candidates.

I don't understand why people think we'll get value for retaining half of cammy's cap hit. At the trade deadline Cammalleri's cap will be a fraction of what it is now.

[$ven27]

^ The cap hit would still be 6M unless we retained salary, no? ( I have no idea, just asking)

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by indes

I don't understand why people think we'll get value for retaining half of cammy's cap hit. At the trade deadline Cammalleri's cap will be a fraction of what it is now.

Me neither, but my only thought is it puts more teams in play, and/or lets the teams in play make more moves...?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by $ven27

^ The cap hit would still be 6M unless we retained salary, no? ( I have no idea, just asking)

It will still be $6m, but the cap is calculated daily. If there is only 1/4th of the season remaining, a team would only need room for 1/4th of his $6m.

[Psytic]

I thought cap hits were pro rated? or is it just salary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 868904

The Kessel trade looks bad because the Bruins hit on their selections. If the Bruins on even one of those picks, it looks like a steal for Burke.

As Flames fans, we should understand that the draft, even high picks, are uncertain.

Burke paid a premium for certainty, Bruins took the risk and were rewarded.

Quoted because there aren't enough sensible posts on the Kessel trade (from either side).

Burke got a top line player for picks. Those picks turned out to be very high and very good players.

Worked out good for both teams.

But Burke overvalued his team and as a result, gave up higher picks than he intended. So not a great trade, but not horrible either.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Another new article from Francis talking about how Burke is working the phones hard but hasn't found the value yet.

2014 1st is untouchable (no team has even asked for it)
He thinks there will be better value for UFAs closer to the deadline
No quick fix trades
He is chasing down other GMs right now more than they coming to him.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2014/01/18/c...-and-gm-search

Just wanted to quote this so it doesn't get drowned out in all the Kessel talk.

I must admit that the last few times Burke has said something it has made me more confident that he will do things right.

[Vinny01]

While I think Burke left Toronto in far better shape when he took over he was still fired so he can't be 100% satisfied with his performance. By that I mean he likely realizes mistakes were made trying to take shortcuts and from everything he has said he will not make those same mistakes again with the Flames.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

While I think Burke left Toronto in far better shape when he took over he was still fired so he can't be 100% satisfied with his performance. By that I mean he likely realizes mistakes were made trying to take shortcuts and from everything he has said he will not make those same mistakes again with the Flames.

The very fact they showed improvement right as they fired him shows he was let go too early.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Another new article from Francis talking about how Burke is working the phones hard but hasn't found the value yet.

2014 1st is untouchable (no team has even asked for it)
He thinks there will be better value for UFAs closer to the deadline
No quick fix trades
He is chasing down other GMs right now more than they coming to him.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2014/01/18/c...-and-gm-search

What's the over under on when Burke stops giving Francis the time of day. It is coming. Once Francis feels slighted by Burke he will start taking shots at him in the media. Then we will have our own version of Larry Brooks/ John Tortorella around here.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Another new article from Francis talking about how Burke is working the phones hard but hasn't found the value yet.

2014 1st is untouchable (no team has even asked for it)
He thinks there will be better value for UFAs closer to the deadline
No quick fix trades
He is chasing down other GMs right now more than they coming to him.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2014/01/18/c...-and-gm-search

Hopefully it goes without saying, but the 2015 1st round pick had better be untouchable as well.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I thought cap hits were pro rated? or is it just salary

You are correct..... So if a team has 3 million cap space at the beginning of the year they still cannot take on a 4 million dollar player after game 41 as they will only have 1.5 in space for a 2 million cap hit. Every dollar cap hit or space is pro rated.

[rhino]

Nothing should be untouchable at this point. If you can add a great young piece for a first round you do it. In saying that no one would do that trade if the young piece is indeed great. I really don't think Burke is a stupid man and would trade a potential first overall for an aging vet. In a rebuild you use any and all assets to improve. You move older players for young and picks and in turn you can't sit on all those picks until they develop. Burke moved that pick for Kessel not really thinking they would finish at the bottom the next year, so if the Leafs had finished 15th overall no one would ever question that trade. As a G.M. you would probably never trade a first overall with a sure thing prospect sitting there.

[strombad]

Moon vs. BigTuna, it's like a dream come true!

On "the trade": Something worth noting - If comparing the two, Tyler Seguin is actually a better player at this point in his career than Phil Kessel at the same point in his career. It's marginal, but at best, the two are a wash.

In hindsight the trade isn't great for Toronto because they essentially traded someone who has progressed at a faster rate than Phil Kessel plus a blue chip defensive prospect. Had they not made the trade, they would've ended up with a similar player in a more crucial position PLUS an extra prospect. Taking into account the would'ves and couldves, that would then make players like Kadri and Gardiner even MORE expendable, but in this case you would be able to swap them for a scoring winger, something much more attainable than a 1st line center.

That said, those picks could've just as easily ended up as Gudbranson and Seimens, which aren't nearly at the same level as Seguin and Hamilton, so I still think it's a trade you make every time.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Bet even money Burkie slept VERY well last night

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rhino

You are correct..... So if a team has 3 million cap space at the beginning of the year they still cannot take on a 4 million dollar player after game 41 as they will only have 1.5 in space for a 2 million cap hit. Every dollar cap hit or space is pro rated.

That is not correct. It is calculated daily and accrues. The cap is a cumulative aggregate.

Cap is $64M, which (assuming 180 days for easy math as I don't know the exact number this year) is $356k per day.

If a team is $3m under the cap, they are running at $339k per day.

At the half way point, they would be at 330k x 90 = $30.5m vs a cumulative cap of 32m

They could therefore spend $33.5M over the remaining half of the year, or $372k per day, which is the equivalent of $67m in total annual salary (they could overspend the cap for the remaining days, so long as they don't ever overspend the daily cumulative total).

If a trade didn't happen until the 120 day mark, they would have banked $2m in total, and they could spend $388k per day for the rest of the season, which equates to a total annual salary of $70m (in other words, they could take on Cammalleri's entire salary at that point)

Edit: sorry, using your example of a team with $61m in payroll to start, they could have taken on Cammelleri's salary at the half way point.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

GP 22 G 1 A7 P 8 -2

One goal in 22 games despite all that ice-time. And he was out drinking during the playoffs.

Seguin was just terrible in the playoffs.

Still had more points in the playoffs than Kessel though.

[getbak]

Other than the draft picks, there are few, if any, untouchables going into the deadline: http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...191/story.html

[Trailer Fire]

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