[PGT] Flames Fall 6-0 in Phx

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hartley is coaching the team right to expectations. Nothing better. Nothing worse. No point in firing him now as that will be sorted out in the offseason.

Yup, let him ride out the season. Looks like we'll hire a new GM after the draft, let him pick his guy going into next season.

[Tinordi]

Yeah Hartley isn't the problem you morans.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hartley is coaching the team right to expectations. Nothing better. Nothing worse. No point in firing him now as that will be sorted out in the offseason.

While for the most part I agree with you... throwing up four goose eggs in six games is surely some cause for concern. Though I'd probably chalk that up to overly useless vets that don't seem to give a crap out there then Hartley.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

NYI average age - 27.158
CGY average age - 27.192

The Islanders are younger then the Flames, by about two weeks?

The Islanders have John Tavares, an amazing piece but in terms of young players beyond him it's a whole lot of yawn. If the Flames pull the trigger on some dead weight vets at the trade deadline you'll see the Flames average age (12th in the NHL) drop quite a bit. Hopefully the Flames can stay below the Islanders this season and draft another highly skilled player.

I don't give credit for teams figuring it out and getting better until they actually do.

I disagree with that. Okposo and Hamonic are already proving themselves. Reinhart and Strome are definitely prospects to be excited about. De Haan and Donovan are already seeing some NHL ice time this season, throw in Pulock, Pokka and Mayfield and if Reinhart develops into a top pairing defenseman that's looking like a pretty solid potential defense core.

They wont have a first next year it looks like but they've definitely got more pieces of the puzzle than the Flames. They've also been collecting them for the last decade or whatever it's been though.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I disagree with that. Okposo and Hamonic are already proving themselves. Reinhart and Strome are definitely prospects to be excited about. De Haan and Donovan are already seeing some NHL ice time this season, throw in Pulock, Pokka and Mayfield and if Reinhart develops into a top pairing defenseman that's looking like a pretty solid potential defense core.

They wont have a first next year it looks like but they've definitely got more pieces of the puzzle than the Flames. They've also been collecting them for the last decade or whatever it's been though.

And that's fair but to the outsider the Flames are a whole lot of yawn but definitely have some decent up and coming players too. But until either team actually does turn that corner I'm not quick to give them credit. Which is what my initial reply was all about.

[atb]

Really wish McDavid was in this years draft

[sergei_makarov]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Yeah Hartley isn't the problem you morans.

[AcGold]

atleast Hartley had them working hard and he's generally positive about what he has to say. Seems like he tries to keep their spirits up and try not to let the atmosphere get to them, infinitely better than Sutter's angry scowl. We need a guy that the players don't hate to see every day and for now Hartley does not seem to be a major problem, a huge lack of talent, speed and size is our problem. I'm honestly surprised we aren't last with how few high end players we have.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hartley is coaching the team right to expectations. Nothing better. Nothing worse. No point in firing him now as that will be sorted out in the offseason.

Hold up. Where did I say fire Hartley in that post?

The post was a response about judging Hartley since the Flames aren't dead last. Bubbsy is essentially giving Hartley credit because Buffalo is terrible, it's a fallacy unless Hartley is the reason Buffalo is terrible. The Flames, like you said, are performing to expectations. What does Hartley have to do with Buffalo at all?

I'm not saying go out and fire Hartley, there's a bigger need in finding a GM and then the direction of the team. But the Flames not finishing dead last isn't an indication of Hartley doing a decent job or getting more out of the Flames or anything of that ilk, it means Buffalo and Edmonton are trash.

That said, fire Hartley

[timbit]

Top 7 forwards and top 4 d Islanders:

Tavares 22
Okposo 25
Nelson. 22
Strome 20
Nielsen 29
Vanek. 29
Grabner 26

24.6 avg

McDonald 27
Hamonic 23
Hickey 24
De Haan 23
( Reinhart 19)

24.7 avg.( 23.1)

[MrMastodonFarm]

Do you think that group screams future contender?

[Red_Baron]

The team is about where I expected standings wise but it has been disappointing to see the compete level drop through the floor.
After 4 shutouts in 6 games I am completely mindf***ed that the oilers are still worse and have played 3 more games.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Do you think that group screams future contender?

Compared to the Flames....Fing rights....not even close.

Do you remember my original point?

[sergei_makarov]

whats happening here

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by timbit

Compared to the Flames....Fing rights....not even close.

Do you remember my original point?

I don't care what your original point was. I took issue with you giving them credit for (what I see) as a nice hot streak. I actually don't mind the Islanders, I would love to see them do well but they've really been a franchise you can count on year after year to fall flat on their faces.

You're convinced they're maturing and finding their way, I'm not.

[browna]

After the players meeting Sunday, saying things had to change, as Cammalleri alluded to yesterday after the win, it takes another full step back.

Something's got to drop soon. Not with some ill-timed intermission rant full of empty threats/promises as we heard a couple years ago from the previous regime.

I don't think Hartley ever had buy in from the vets last year (many of those still here this year) given his patronage appointment from that previous regime (look at Millions' tweet yesterday after he had words with Sarich).

He know's he's likely a lame duck as soon as Burke comes in, and runs the players hard thorough camp and through a decent opening 3 weeks of the season. But, one can only go to the fire and brimstone methods so often.

Injuries set in and the lack of depth shone clearly through. Now, he's forced to manage. He's got vets who've now completely tuned him out, role players that are on the fringe, looking to show enough to stick with the team/in the league next year, goaltending that, (speaking of above mentioned empty promises) had been below average for the most part, a few younger guys showing they have what it takes to stick, and then 1 golden egg in Monahan that has to be handled properly at his young age.

So it's pretty neutral, not much to blame him for, his style and methods were brought in by an acquaintance to handle a veteran team (after himself making the playoffs past the first round 1 time since the early 2000's) and it's now a 180 and he's stuck here. But no credit at all should be given, either for lack of overall cohesiveness and getting the doors blown off more than anytime in the past 12-15 years.

Thankfully, there is Burke to run the PR around the league and with the prospects, not the bumbling previous regime to make the organizational situation worse as was done last year. Full confidence he'll act, as this has to be eating him up inside; the Sochi distractions hopefully don't prevent him from doing a deal or whatever, if it's there/is time.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I don't care what your original point was. I took issue with you giving them credit for (what I see) as a nice hot streak. I actually don't mind the Islanders, I would love to see them do well but they've really been a franchise you can count on year after year to fall flat on their faces.

You're convinced they're maturing and finding their way, I'm not.

You neglected to remember the first part.

" they are a way more talented and younger group than the Flames"

Do you dispute that now?

[AcGold]

stop being obtuse

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by timbit

You neglected to remember the first part.

" they are a way more talented and younger group than the Flames"

Do you dispute that now?

The Islanders remind me of the 2002-2003 Florida Panthers. A nice collection of good young talented players, Jay Bouwmeester, Stephen Weiss, Olli Jokinen, Brad Ference, Roberto Louongo, Marcus Nilson etc etc but not much to show for it.

Until a team turns the corner, they just don't turn the corner.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The Islanders remind me of the 2002-2003 Florida Panthers. A nice collection of good young talented players, Jay Bouwmeester, Stephen Weiss, Olli Jokinen, Brad Ference, Roberto Louongo, Marcus Nilson etc etc but not much to show for it.

Until a team turns the corner, they just don't turn the corner.

What does any of that have to do with the question I have asked you twice?

Do the Flames have a younger and more talented core than the Islanders?

Pretty simple question.