[Rumour] Canucks/Abbotsford/Heat Ongoing Saga

[sureLoss]

With the Utica and now Glenn Falls rumors, one could assume the Flames are looking for locations with minimal travel cost with regards to team travel.

[Lil Pedro]

Really hope this abbotsford experiment ends for the Flames

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

Really hope this abbotsford experiment ends for the Flames

Why? Abbotsford has probably been the best AHL affiliate that the Flames have ever had.

All loses covered by the taxpayers, leaving the Flames to spend money elsewhere.

Closest affiliate in modern history, call ups are usually 45 minute flight away most of the season. Also works the other way, easier for management and coaches in Calgary to keep tabs on the prospects.

They haven't had the best sized crowds but does that hurt development?

[Muta]

Yeah, I like the Abbotsford setup. Personally, I hope it doesn't end. I like having the team close by, and within the Canadian market.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Why? Abbotsford has probably been the best AHL affiliate that the Flames have ever had.

All loses covered by the taxpayers, leaving the Flames to spend money elsewhere.

Closest affiliate in modern history, call ups are usually 45 minute flight away most of the season. Also works the other way, easier for management and coaches in Calgary to keep tabs on the prospects.

They haven't had the best sized crowds but does that hurt development?

Terrible travel.
Awful crowds.
Loss of practice days.
More injuries because of the travel.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Terrible travel.
Awful crowds.
Loss of practice days.
More injuries because of the travel.

3 of 4 ain't bad Freeway, but I really don't think the crowds matter.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

3 of 4 ain't bad Freeway, but I really don't think the crowds matter.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

They haven't had the best sized crowds but does that hurt development?

I disagree with both of you, I think the crowds do matter. I think it motivates them a little more if you know you have people behind you and cheering rather then playing in a library night after night. You have more of a connection to the city and fans when you have that fanbase that comes out night after night and cheers you on (or maybe even boo's you). That's one thing I don't see from the players in Abbotsford, they rarely mention the fans or the fanbase or anything like that. Even with the occasional giveaways they do on twitter (which is another matter in itself. Whoever does their marketing really needs to take a look at what other AHL teams are doing because Abbotsford severely lacks in promotions and fan interaction. They are one of the worst teams in the league for fan interaction and contests/prizing and things to get the interest of the fans), I think it's the same 5 people that always enter or answer and that's it. Whereas, if you look at a team like Hershey or Toronto or even OKC, they have 100-200 fans doing the same thing. I'm sure if Abbotsford did a first goal contest (you guess who will score the first goal of the game and if you are right, you win a signed puck from that player) like some of these other teams, it would be 10-20 people entering. For these other teams, it's 150-200 people guessing. There are far worse AHL teams out there with a much stronger fan base and the players that have more of a connection to where they play because of it.

I'm just a beer leaguer myself and I know that when we have a couple people out there, doesn't even matter if it's just random kids from the next group skating cheering us on, we play a better game. I can't imagine it's much different for the professionals. You respond to your surroundings and when you are playing to 3,000 empty seats, it does have an effect.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

Really hope this abbotsford experiment ends for the Flames

Where would you rather they set up shop?

I like the short travel up to the big club, especially over the next couple of seasons, when there will be players go up and down on a regular basis.

[FlamesAddiction]

If Quebec still doesn't have a team when their arena opens in 2015, the Flames should look there for an affiliate, even if it is just temporary.

Daily direct flights to Calgary, a rabid fan base that would be looking to prove itself, and decent travel within the AHL.

The only downside is that if Quebec is on the shortlist for an NHL team, they might have to move again soon.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Quebec still doesn't have a team when their arena opens in 2015, the Flames should look there for an affiliate, even if it is just temporary.

Daily direct flights to Calgary, a rabid fan base that would be looking to prove itself, and decent travel within the AHL.

The only downside is that if Quebec is on the shortlist for an NHL team, they might have to move again soon.

It's not cheap to pack up a whole AHL franchise and move shop. Moving a franchise every 4-5 years doesn't help establish a solid foundation to the org either. That's a lot of $$ and a lot of work.

Abbotsford is a decent locale right now for the team. Unless something cherry comes up, like maybe in Airdrie, there's no sense in moving them.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Where would you rather they set up shop?

I like the short travel up to the big club, especially over the next couple of seasons, when there will be players go up and down on a regular basis.

Is short travel for a handful of players to come up to Calgary once or twice per year worth excessively long travel for every player 20-30 times per year? I say no. In fact, I say that the amount of travel is detrimental to our ability to develop our prospects. More flights, longer travel = greater fatigue and less practice time.

The Flames went into Abbotsford hoping to start a westward movement in the AHL. It failed. The only reason they are still there is the sweetheart deal with AESC and the city.

[Vulcan]

On a personal level I won't like the Heat leaving Abbotsford as I won't be able to get to the odd game anymore. There will be quite a few others that report on the Heat that will miss them as well. The same thing happened in Omaha and Quad Cities but time and changes happen.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by saXon

It's not cheap to pack up a whole AHL franchise and move shop. Moving a franchise every 4-5 years doesn't help establish a solid foundation to the org either. That's a lot of $$ and a lot of work.

Abbotsford is a decent locale right now for the team. Unless something cherry comes up, like maybe in Airdrie, there's no sense in moving them.

I assume that there would be financial incentives by the Quebec group for someone to put a team there, but if not then I agree it might not be worth it.

If the Quebec group does not have an NHL tenant by the time the arena is operational, then I imagine that they will be willing to pay to have an AHL tenant. It might take a few years of proving they can support the AHL before the NHL decides they are worth it.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Personally the only thing I dislike about the Heat in Abbotsford is their horrendous travel schedule. That is a huge disadvantage for them, and it probably does negatively impact how often they can practice.

The proximity to Calgary is great, however. That contract is sweet - both in the losses being covered and the relative term in stability for the organization.

In the world of hypotheticals - one has to wonder how Airdrie would fare if they had an arena. Population of Airdrie is roughly just under 50,000. Abbotsford has 123,000. I wonder how many fans would go within Airdrie itself. They would draw some fans from Calgary for sure I would think, as well as the surrounding small communities. I would bet that the attendance would surpass that of Abbotsford quite easily.

However, I am not sure they could turn a profit. It may end up bleeding money and forcing another move in time anyways. Of course they would need an arena to start with, but how big of an arena do you think Airdrie would fill if the Heat played out of it? I personally have no clue. I do have my doubts that Airdrie could be sustainable.

I would bet that the Heat's days are numbered in Abbotsford - doubtful they could get that sweetheart deal again from the City of Abbotsford when the current contract runs out - and the Heat may indeed move before that. Only makes sense to place the team out East somewhere where the travel schedule isn't so crazy.

How many years are left on that contract with Abby?

[Resolute 14]

An AHL team in Airdrie would not work at all. It's not a separate market from Calgary, and as such, would have to compete against the Flames and Hitmen for fans. It would be a third-fiddle team, and the best the Flames could hope for is to cannibalize its bigger properties. Plus, you are still left with a horrendous travel schedule.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

An AHL team in Airdrie would not work at all. It's not a separate market from Calgary, and as such, would have to compete against the Flames and Hitmen for fans. It would be a third-fiddle team, and the best the Flames could hope for is to cannibalize its bigger properties. Plus, you are still left with a horrendous travel schedule.

I think Airdrie would have high support for their own pro team. Though it's unlikely they city of Airdrie would risk spending a lot of money on a new arena for something that might not work out.

[Freeway]

The Heat being where they are is 95% a business decision.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by saXon

It's not cheap to pack up a whole AHL franchise and move shop. Moving a franchise every 4-5 years doesn't help establish a solid foundation to the org either. That's a lot of $$ and a lot of work.

Abbotsford is a decent locale right now for the team. Unless something cherry comes up, like maybe in Airdrie, there's no sense in moving them.

Seems pretty common these days for AHL teams to change affiliations/cities:

This year:
Dallas affiliate moved from Houston to Iowa
Vancouver moved from Chicago to Utica
St.Louis moved from Peroia to Chicago

Last year:
Anaheim moved from Syracuse to Norfolf
Tampa Bay moved from Norfolk to Syracuse

Two years ago:
Vancouver moved from Winnipeg to Chicago
Atlanta/Winnipeg moved from Chicago to St.Johns
Buffalo from Portland to Rochester
Florida from Rochester to San Antonio
Phoenix from San Antonio to Porland

I suppose most of these are just affiliation changes which is less of an ordeal, although it would be the same thing if Calgary moved to Adirondack.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Dan Kinvig followed up on the Heat to Glens Falls rumours. Nothing new. The mayor refused to comment.

There is a five-year review clause in the contract which would come into effect after this season, but changes have to be agreed upon by all parties.

Abbotsford Mayor Bruce Banman, through a spokesperson, declined comment on Monday.

http://www.abbynews.com/news/252066741.html

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Quebec still doesn't have a team when their arena opens in 2015, the Flames should look there for an affiliate, even if it is just temporary.

Daily direct flights to Calgary, a rabid fan base that would be looking to prove itself, and decent travel within the AHL.

The only downside is that if Quebec is on the shortlist for an NHL team, they might have to move again soon.

If I were to guess I'd wager the people in QC will stay by the Remparts until an NHL team arrives. I just can't see them throwing support behind a non-Habs AHL team in the interim.

Now I suppose if PKP/Quebecor wanted to setup similar to TNSE and show they can at least operate a successful AHL team in their fancy new arena and wanted to cover the costs of the team then I guess you'd have something.