[PGT] The Honda center curse continues. Ducks win 5-2.

[Henry Fool]

Just based on highlights, the first goal was a misplay by Berra but the rest of the goals simply show Anaheim's domination. In that sense Hartley is correct that it wasn't a game decided by goaltending.

Giving up a bad goal in the first period when there's still the rest of the game left to recover isn't that serious if the team is good enough to play a decent game. I'm more critical of the third period lapses.

[Huntingwhale]

Best part of the game was me falling asleep after it was 2-0, then waking up to see the CBJ beating the crap outta the Oilers.

[Wastedyouth]

Of course Hartley thinks the game wasn't lost on goaltending. Berra can do no wrong in his eyes. What a maroon.

[Dion]

The Dad's chime in on the loss.......

ANAHEIM -- Clad in their snazzy red jerseys, the Calgary Flames fathers moseyed towards the visitors’ quarters.

So snail-like was their post-game pace, however, that even reporters trotted past them.

“We better slow down,” cautioned one dad. “We don’t want the coach to chew us out, too.”

Hartley on why we lost......

“They’re unbeaten for a reason,” said Hartley, whose team, which failed to draw a single penalty, had been overwhelmed — and outshot 42-21. “They limit turnovers to a minimum. They’re a big team. They skate well

Another Western Conference game,” said Hartley. “There’s not too many small teams on this side. We just have to go, limit turnovers, making sure we create some good offensive chances, putting pucks at the net with traffic. In order to play those big teams, we need to play a real smart game.”

David Jones has a few thoughts.....

“Sometimes, I think we’re a little too passive,” said David Jones. “Then we get down a couple goals and we start playing — I don’t know why we do that. It’s not winning hockey. We’ve got to find a way to change that.

“We can’t play from behind like that. That’s losing hockey, to try to chase the game, especially with a team like that. Then you try to create things and then you end up missing responsibilities on the other side of the puck. Before you know it, it’s (4-1). It’s frustrating.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...950/story.html

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

No kidding. Trading a top 5 pick for Vanek.

Not sure how this is a bad thing? Vanek is a great player already while a top 5 pick is no guarantee. Heck if they gave the Flames the option to draft Vanek at number 3-5 I would jump on it in a heart beat. He's scored 40 goals twice and 30 once and has 8 straight 20 goal or more seasons, including the shortened season where he only played 38 games.

Oh, and he is only 29.

[puckluck2]

Man Chris Butler is only one minus away from Nail Yakupov for the NHL lead.

You can do it Butler!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Not sure how this is a bad thing? Vanek is a great player already while a top 5 pick is no guarantee. Heck if they gave the Flames the option to draft Vanek at number 3-5 I would jump on it in a heart beat. He's scored 40 goals twice and 30 once and has 8 straight 20 goal or more seasons, including the shortened season where he only played 38 games.

Oh, and he is only 29.

And when the rebuild is over he will be past his prime and close to retirement.

[dying4acup]

Does Berra remind anybody of Trevor Kidd?

Also thought Breen had a tough return to the lineup. I hope they stick with him though. I'd like to see him play every game until Gio returns, and at least 25-30 this season. Let's figure out if he can play.

Liked Bouma's game. I might be crazy, but he has the raw skill and determination to be a 2b/3a winger. Kind of like David Jones. 20goal upside.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Just based on highlights, the first goal was a misplay by Berra but the rest of the goals simply show Anaheim's domination. In that sense Hartley is correct that it wasn't a game decided by goaltending.

Giving up a bad goal in the first period when there's still the rest of the game left to recover isn't that serious if the team is good enough to play a decent game. I'm more critical of the third period lapses.

My preference has been Berra over Ramo, however the more I watch Berra he seems to get caught out of position a lot. I don't know if it is the adjustment to the speed of the NHL game; Too many times it seems like has scramble to make the save or he can't get back into position. I am wondering if this could partly be due to his size; Kipper had the agility to get back into position Berra heads one way but can't get back fast enough. Berra doesn't seem to let as many soft goals but just more or less gets caught out of position.

First goal he was completely out of position and had to take a dive to try and cover the wide open net. The next shot was deflected but still went through the open space between the legs (thought this one was stoppable if he has his stick down). The third one someone mentioned he was too far out of the net so the pass to Penner was actually slightly behind him into the open net. Fourth one was over the right shoulder really not much he could have done on that one but he does look slightly out of position especially if the pass had gone back to Winnik who had no one covering him and a wide open net with Berra sliding the other way. The 5th one was on butler.., Ramo. On 2 maybe 3 of those goals I thought Berra looked out of position. That said, the defensemen can't continue to leave guys wide open.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Not sure how this is a bad thing? Vanek is a great player already while a top 5 pick is no guarantee. Heck if they gave the Flames the option to draft Vanek at number 3-5 I would jump on it in a heart beat. He's scored 40 goals twice and 30 once and has 8 straight 20 goal or more seasons, including the shortened season where he only played 38 games.

Oh, and he is only 29.

Maybe a top 5 for Vanek in itself isn't bad, but when you consider Vanek is an UFA and may not want to re-sign with one horrible team after getting traded from another horrible team, and giving up that pick for 3/4 of a non-playoff season is indeed a horrible trade.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

My preference has been Berra over Ramo, however the more I watch Berra he seems to get caught out of position a lot. I don't know if it is the adjustment to the speed of the NHL game; Too many times it seems like has scramble to make the save or he can't get back into position. I am wondering if this could partly be due to his size; Kipper had the agility to get back into position Berra heads one way but can't get back fast enough. Berra doesn't seem to let as many soft goals but just more or less gets caught out of position.

First goal he was completely out of position and had to take a dive to try and cover the wide open net. The next shot was deflected but still went through the open space between the legs (thought this one was stoppable if he has his stick down). The third one someone mentioned he was too far out of the net so the pass to Penner was actually slightly behind him into the open net. Fourth one was over the right shoulder really not much he could have done on that one but he does look slightly out of position especially if the pass had gone back to Winnik who had no one covering him and a wide open net with Berra sliding the other way. The 5th one was on butler.., Ramo. On 2 maybe 3 of those goals I thought Berra looked out of position. That said, the defensemen can't continue to leave guys wide open.

Even Kipper started overplaying in the Keenan years. Before the season I called the current goalies sacrificial goats because the lineup isn't strong enough defensively so I'd be a hypocrite if I was super critical of them.

Maybe I also had a naive idea of the goalies pushing each other from game to game.

I also think that it's too hard on Berra to treat him like he's already a starter because the coaches think that he will be. It would be interesting to know what the coaches plan in the long run and how exactly they're working with both of the goalies. Can't just declare that someone can be elite and then play him until he proves you right.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Berra has a lot of strengths over the other two candidates and I believe the higher ceiling. But that first goal was entirely on him. Overplayed and failed to be back in position.

I see his potential, the rebound control issues of MacDonald and Ramo are harder to coach.

The other 4 goals are Anaheim outplaying Calgary, not on the goalie

First several games of the year, I thought Kipper was ill advised in hanging them up. The rash of injuries has resulted in a situation that can't be good for anyone in net though

[djsFlames]

Well, we either get a goalie that gets too excited and over commits to shots getting himself out of position, or a goalie that gives up horrendous rebounds. Take your pick.

I hope Malarchuk has at least been working with Ramo on his game and practicing those damn rebounds day in day out. Hope to see a solid performance from Ramo tomorrow/today.

[Henry Fool]

Rämö hasn't shown any particular strengths but I also don't see why rebound control would be harder to coach and practice than some other aspect. That's the kind of thing NHL goalies work on and improve all the time.

And assuming that overplaying isn't a mental tic, playing calmer in net should be coacheable too.

It would be nice to get some routine into Rämö's game. Currently Berra has too much responsibility to bear and Rämö must feel really insecure knowing that he has to prove himself in single games after sitting on the bench for forever. There's a lot we don't know of course but it seems that the situation could be healthier. I don't get the sense that there's a healthy, positive competition going on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Rämö hasn't shown any particular strengths but I also don't see why rebound control would be harder to coach and practice than some other aspect. That's the kind of thing NHL goalies work on and improve all the time.

And assuming that overplaying isn't a mental tic, playing calmer in net should be coacheable too.

It would be nice to get some routine into Rämö's game. Currently Berra has too much responsibility to bear and Rämö must feel really insecure knowing that he has to prove himself in single games after sitting on the bench for forever. There's a lot we don't know of course but it seems that the situation could be healthier. I don't get the sense that there's a healthy, positive competition going on.

Just that rebound control is a subtle adjustment where overall positioning after a shot / not over committing is pretty basic positional stuff.

I just see Berra's weaknesses as mental, controllable gross movement decision making (failing to push back in to position for Berra, like how Joey ends up sitting on his ass) and not real subtle adjustments in feel and finer motor control. But yes. Rebound placement can be coached too.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Just that rebound control is a subtle adjustment where overall positioning after a shot / not over committing is pretty basic positional stuff.

I just see Berra's weaknesses as mental, controllable gross movement decision making (failing to push back in to position for Berra, like how Joey ends up sitting on his ass) and not real subtle adjustments in feel and finer motor control. But yes. Rebound placement can be coached too.

I don't know if mental issues are things a hockey coach can necessarily help you with. Maybe sometimes.

And maybe we'll find that Rämö's issues aren't that big after all when he gets a few games within a reasonable length of time. He's not exactly fresh in our memories either given that he hasn't started a game in weeks.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I don't know if mental issues are things a hockey coach can necessarily help you with. Maybe sometimes.

And maybe we'll find that Rämö's issues aren't that big after all when he gets a few games within a reasonable length of time. He's not exactly fresh in our memories either given that he hasn't started a game in weeks.

I agree, and most of you have to agee (or not), that it is better to see Ramo next game then it is to see MacD. Speaking of which, is he down in the AHL right now in place of Berra?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Even Kipper started overplaying in the Keenan years. Before the season I called the current goalies sacrificial goats because the lineup isn't strong enough defensively so I'd be a hypocrite if I was super critical of them.

Maybe I also had a naive idea of the goalies pushing each other from game to game.

I also think that it's too hard on Berra to treat him like he's already a starter because the coaches think that he will be. It would be interesting to know what the coaches plan in the long run and how exactly they're working with both of the goalies. Can't just declare that someone can be elite and then play him until he proves you right.

I think Hartley wanted him to settle in and play his game but that's pretty hard to do with the guys in front of him not giving much support. I agree with you it's not going to do Berra's confidence a whole lot of good to have him play under a bunch of losses. I believe Berra's positioning issues are correctable, but then we see both guys making the same mistakes after subsequent games. Hopefully they see this as a learning opportunity and rebounds and positioning become a focal point for both guys. I liked Berra's first game against Chicago where he was calm, stayed in position and had a very good rebound control the whole game.

[Flash Walken]

Where's Henrik Karlsson when you need him?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Rämö hasn't shown any particular strengths but I also don't see why rebound control would be harder to coach and practice than some other aspect. That's the kind of thing NHL goalies work on and improve all the time.

And assuming that overplaying isn't a mental tic, playing calmer in net should be coacheable too.

It would be nice to get some routine into Rämö's game. Currently Berra has too much responsibility to bear and Rämö must feel really insecure knowing that he has to prove himself in single games after sitting on the bench for forever. There's a lot we don't know of course but it seems that the situation could be healthier. I don't get the sense that there's a healthy, positive competition going on.

A lot of those plays Kipper would just corral and freeze the play and taking the momentum away from the other team. The problem with bad rebound control is the other team either gets off another shot or regains control of the puck while we remain hemmed in our end. More importantly the other team maintains the pressure and momentum. I have watched Ramo and sometimes Berra at times kick out a rebound when our guys look tired, or scrambling in our own end. How many times have we seen Kipper just go down and corral the puck, nothing fancy there and no potential for going out of position.