[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[dino7c]

as usual people are comparing apples to oranges

[GirlySports]

it's a long season, he's not going to play 82 games.

I like that he can watch the game with someone from the press box. Who sits up there? Cloutier?

[868904]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Nobody in their right mind thinks what they are doing in Edmonton is right, but why are we keeping Jackman in the line up while we sit our young players. Really what has Jackman done this year to prove he even belongs in the NHL. He had a good season 2 years ago, move on, he is done as an effective player. He doesn't even drop the gloves anymore so what does he do that McGrats doesn't?

It's not about Jackman/McGrattan versus Sven.

It's Sven versus Backlund/Stempniak/Cammalleri/Hudler/Glencross/Jones.

It's different roles.

I bet we see Backlund with Monahan and Hudler more than we see Jackman or Bouma with those guys.

Hartley feels the Flames need more toughness and size out there against a team that has 3 agitators/tough guys in Cooke, Kenopka, and Stoner. Maybe Rupp plays too.

And Jackman does contribute when he's out there. He's a big body grinder on the forecheck. Many of you might not appreciate what he does but he does contribute.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by 868904

It's not about Jackman/McGrattan versus Sven.

It's Sven versus Backlund/Stempniak/Cammalleri/Hudler/Glencross/Jones.

It's different roles.

I bet we see Backlund with Monahan and Hudler more than we see Jackman or Bouma with those guys.

Hartley feels the Flames need more toughness and size out there against a team that has 3 agitators/tough guys in Cooke, Kenopka, and Stoner. Maybe Rupp plays too.

And Jackman does contribute when he's out there. He's a big body grinder on the forecheck. Many of you might not appreciate what he does but he does contribute.

Exactly. This story about benching Sven so he can learn from the press box is pure BS... just like it was last time.

They're not playing Sven because they want more size in the lineup and they figure keeping him in the lineup will hurt the Flames more than taking him out and putting Jackman in.

... which brings me to the question... are they more interested in winning now or developing players to win big in the future? Looks like winning now is their answer.... which is sad... been there done that.

[GreenLantern2814]

Sven needs to be one of the best players on this team. Against Washington, he very much was. Most nights, he hasn't been. I'm as big a Sven fan as there is, but if he isn't one of our best players night in and night out, scratch him and hold him accountable. He is being held to a much higher standard. And if he can't handle that, we need to know sooner rather than later.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Exactly. This story about benching Sven so he can learn from the press box is pure BS... just like it was last time.

They're not playing Sven because they want more size in the lineup and they figure keeping him in the lineup will hurt the Flames more than taking him out and putting Jackman in.

... which brings me to the question... are they more interested in winning now or developing players to win big in the future? Looks like winning now is their answer.... which is sad... been there done that.

Jeez, you just don't get it. They are trying to win every game, like professional sports teams normally do. The Flames are not going to tank in favor of giving kids unearned minutes. Not sad at all.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sven needs to be one of the best players on this team. Against Washington, he very much was. Most nights, he hasn't been. I'm as big a Sven fan as there is, but if he isn't one of our best players night in and night out, scratch him and hold him accountable. He is being held to a much higher standard. And if he can't handle that, we need to know sooner rather than later.

Why is Sven held accountable and others who play just as bad or worse, aren't?

I'll tell you why... because he's 5'11" and 190 lbs and he doesn't play a physical style game.... and Burke doesn't like him.

Lets cut the BS about he needs more time in the press box to learn.. That's just the Flames putting a palatable spin on their reason to put more physicality in the line up.... and Sven is the easiest player to pick on and pull from the line up.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sven needs to be one of the best players on this team. Against Washington, he very much was. Most nights, he hasn't been. I'm as big a Sven fan as there is, but if he isn't one of our best players night in and night out, scratch him and hold him accountable. He is being held to a much higher standard. And if he can't handle that, we need to know sooner rather than later.

Exactly. If he can't cut the mustard, then he won't be given a 1st line spot in the future. With having guys like Poirier, Gaudreau and Klimchuk coming soon, it puts pressure on him to either put up or lower the expectations. At worst, he should be another Jiri Hudler in that he'll be an inconsistent scorer that is very useful on a 2nd or 3rd line (because when they do turn it on they can win a game for you).

By benching him, the Flames are trying to kick him in the butt to motivate him into becoming that 1st line forward that he could be if he learns consistency.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Jeez, you just don't get it. They are trying to win every game, like professional sports teams normally do. The Flames are not going to tank in favor of giving kids unearned minutes. Not sad at all.

Of course I get it. If they are going with that reason why go into a re-build at all... there are lots of players out there that they could trade rookies and prospects for in order to win more games.

as I said before.... been there done that for the last 5 years... no thanks.

Give the rookies a chance to play and improve... screw the vets who have gotten us no where.

Jackman doesn't deserve to play... Sven does. Our future is with Sven not Jackman.


Edit: So please explain to me how benching Sven and having Jackman play in his place, on his line, helped the team win tonight's game? I look forward to your answer, Frank.

[N-E-B]

Not a fan of this move at all, but looking back, boy am I glad I decided not to get Baertschi on my jersey. At this rate, all that will be is a waste of money. Really disappointed in this move. They have way too high expectations for him. He's not going to be Sean Monahan.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Of course I get it. If they are going with that reason why go into a re-build at all... there are lots of players out there that they could trade rookies and prospects for in order to win more games.

as I said before.... been there done that for the last 5 years... no thanks.

Give the rookies a chance to play and improve... screw the vets who have gotten us no where.

Jackman doesn't deserve to play... Sven does. Our future is with Sven not Jackman.

There's just no point in pouting about Sven being sat. Why aren't you happy that the Flames are icing a less skilled lineup yet claiming they are trying to win now? Aren't you one of the champions for a high pick again this season instead of playoffs?

Don't like the way the Flames run their team? There's 29 others you can cheer for. Hell, the one up the #2 plays kids all the time and screws the vets who got them nowhere.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I'm not even sure what the point that you are trying to make is?

Hartley likes dirty players. That is mine. Not sure what yours is.

simple --

if what you consider a dirty player has the talent and ability to contribute the team winning games of a Claude Lemieux every single coach in the history of the NHL would like him on his team. It is not a defining characteristic of Hartley.

A case could be made that Hartley is on the lower side of loving-dirty-player-coaches as he went 20 games last year with Jackman as his only goon on a team full of polite players. Scotty Bowman/Al Arbour never ever went with near as a non-dirty soft line-up as Hartley did last year.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Don't like the way the Flames run their team? There's 29 others you can cheer for. Hell, the one up the #2 plays kids all the time and screws the vets who got them nowhere.

What a ridiculous statement

[megatron]

Sucks that he sits, but he wasn't that great in the Chicago game. His passes weren't connecting and he was weak on the puck -- not sure if the Wideman shot that hit him in the ribs was affecting his game, but he looked slow and not his normal self.

Hopefully he'll come back stronger the next game and play better.

[shniper]

Sven for Nail??

[TheBrunk]

I really hope management knows what they are doing and don't kill the guy's confidence in himself and possibly the team, coaches,etc...

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by JJsChaos

This has nothing to do with Jackman and everything to do with Sven.

I understand that but when does Jackman's performance begin to matter?

If Sven deserves a healthy scratch, Jackman shouldn't even be on the team. He's been far more useless and a much bigger liabilty.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by shniper

Sven for Nail??

Just stop.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Exactly. This story about benching Sven so he can learn from the press box is pure BS... just like it was last time.

They're not playing Sven because they want more size in the lineup and they figure keeping him in the lineup will hurt the Flames more than taking him out and putting Jackman in.

... which brings me to the question... are they more interested in winning now or developing players to win big in the future? Looks like winning now is their answer.... which is sad... been there done that.

The problem with your theory is you assume both the the desire for size and Sven learning can't both be true.

True it is possible the Flames feel size is needed tonight. But there are lots of players they could sit to provide size, Sven is far from the only smaller player (if you want to call it that) in the line up. But apparently the coaching staff feels he's the one that will benefit the most from a sitting in the press box.

This linear thought that people only get sat to be "held accountable" is far to simple. Lots of reason to sit someone and lots of factors go into a decision like that beyond "who deserves it" purely based on play.

The fact is there are so many reasons Sven could be sitting tonight we can't even list them. And it is true that one of those reasons is simply to add size. It's also true that one of those reasons is to teach Sven. And it's also true that the reason could be a combination of both.

None of us really know, but based on this team has operated both on and off the ice this year and since the end of last year I'd say it's probably pretty silly to suggest the reason is that the Flames have gotten short sighted and are focused solely on current results. This team if anything is showing they are focused on the right things and have a good sense on how to manage the young talent, there really is no reason not to give this management group and coaching staff the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Why is Sven held accountable and others who play just as bad or worse, aren't?

I'll tell you why... because he's 5'11" and 190 lbs and he doesn't play a physical style game.... and Burke doesn't like him.

Lets cut the BS about he needs more time in the press box to learn.. That's just the Flames putting a palatable spin on their reason to put more physicality in the line up.... and Sven is the easiest player to pick on and pull from the line up.

He's held accountable more than other guys because he matters. Jackman doesn't. He's replaceable. The player you want Sven to be is not. They are trying to hold our 'star' player to a higher standard and well they should. Stars got away with far too much here, and I'm not a fan of letting Sven develop as an entitled saviour who can do no wrong. Think long term please. If these scratches are ruining his development, then unfortunately Sven was never going to make it.