Butler - You Knew This Was Coming

[Anduril]

Had always hoped he would put it together after hearing about the initial scouting report when he came over from Buffalo..."has decent skating ability and okay first pass but prone to brain farts"


Nothing has changed. It's time to do something about it Feaster.

[FlamesAddiction]

Butler isn't as bad as people make him out to be, but he is certainly bad enough at times that making him a healthy scratch after a bad game shouldn't be out of the question. I do think he is being given too much of a benefit of the doubt at times. I would be all in favour of getting rid of him in favour of breaking in Breen, Cundari or Wotherspoon. I'm sure the mistakes would happen just as much, but hopefully they would learn from the experience. I'm not sure Butler has much more room to grow.

And I certainly hope that Feaster isn't making coaching decisions. If he is, then he needs to check himself before he wrecks himself.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Had always hoped he would put it together after hearing about the initial scouting report when he came over from Buffalo..."has decent skating ability and okay first pass but prone to brain farts"


Nothing has changed. It's time to do something about it Feaster.

What exactly should Feaster do about this at this point? Isn't it now on Hartley to decide if he should be in the line up or not?

Butler isn't going to get you anything you want in a trade, and we have no needs at this moment to get rid of him, so what exactly are you hoping Feaster could do about it?

[868904]

I'm hoping that the only reason Hartley keeps putting Butler in the lineup is because he feels the defense core is too small and wants his size. Butler is our second biggest defenceman on the NHL roster.

Hopefully, this means that when Breen is done his conditioning stint, he will replace Butler, because they don't come much bigger than Breen.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not a Butler supporter. I simply don't think he's all that bad considering his pay and spot on the depth chart. It's not like he's a -8 player that is costing the Flames when he's on the ice and he's also playing a role on the PK which hasn't been that bad as of late. The problem is that fans are all over him when he makes a mistake like last night but when Brodie makes the same mistake it's not a big deal. The difference right now between SOB and Butler is that Hartley plays Butler on the PK so if you sit Butler do you have SOB or Smith on the PK in his place? I don't think that's a good idea.

If Derek Smith was a better option than SOB or Butler do you really think Hartley wouldn't have him in the lineup? Smith was awful last year and obviously hasn't done enough this season in Hartley's eyes so far.

See the thing is, he is costing the Flames when he is on the ice. We can't get it out of our zone. Which means we aren't getting it into their zone. Which means we cannot score.

Even if he didn't turn it over at the blue line and get scored on last night, he had a horrible game. Watch next time he is in the lineup and see where almost EVERY one of his passes or clearing the puck out of the zone ends up. On the opponents stick. Just because someone bails him out and they don't score against us doesn't mean he isn't hurting the team. The guy continually shows in every game that he lacks hockey IQ. His decision making on the fly is nonexistent.

You state, "The problem is that fans are all over him when he makes a mistake like last night but when Brodie makes the same mistake it's not a big deal." The difference between Brodie and Butler is that Brodie makes things happen. He has shifts that tilt the ice in the Flames favor. He takes risks for the reward. Butler NEVER does that.

Also you do know that Butler is 27 at the end of this month and has played 273 games. Brodie is 23, turning 24 next summer. How you can try to justify a comparison between the two making mistakes is ridiculous.

Chris Butler is the weakest link on the team right now. If you don't believe that to be true you aren't watching the games. Hartley has stated more than once that Smith is practicing hard, working his tail off and isn't happy about being out of the lineup, so I would be more than shocked if he doesn't bump Butler out for the next game. Hopefully he plays well and keeps Butler out of the lineup for a long time.

[Robo]

I've supported butler over the last two years but even I see he is a liabilty now I hope he is out next game

[Fire]

Is Butler an adequate 3rd pairing defenseman? Yes, I suppose that might be true, but why not give Breen or Cundari a chance to prove themselves. Both have upside over Butler.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

People have already keyed in on this, but if you're an average defenseman you need to consistently make safe/smart plays. That has to be the asset you bring to the team. Butler doesn't do this.

I think fans can overlook a boneheaded play by players who bring a strong asset to the team in another area. For example, I could overlook a stupid play by Phaneuf because he least brought a physical game and a booming shot for the powerplay.

Butler isn't young. He's not slow, but he doesn't use his speed very effectively. He shoots muffins. Doesn't make the big hit. Doesn't have much offensive or defensive awareness. Doesn't seem to be a leader on the team.

I mean, try and finish this sentence,
"Sure Butler makes mistakes, but he brings _______"

Shot blocking.

That's the only thing I believe he's good at, and he IS good at it, he's just bad at everything else.

[Stay Golden]

Hartley has said from game 1. Those that play well will play those that don't, won't. That goes the same for every game.
His words so lets see if accountability is delivered to Butler.
He was awful, Hartley and the rest of the coaches saw it, they know it.
Bad plays, bad turn over cost a goal directly, bad penalty. Just bad for Butler all around.
Now it is up to them to show accountability to the team.
I was angry Butler was resigned. There are 200 other Butler inexpensive type D men in the NHL. He is in no way unique or special.
Yet Feaster sure feels Butler is a commodity.
More like it is comedy he got another contract from Feaster.
Bench him and play Smith. Butler had his chance as a player on the bubble now give Smith his chance or the point of accountability becomes a deaf message from the HC to the team and the fans.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Hartley has said from game 1. Those that play well will play those that don't, won't. That goes the same for every game.
His words so lets see if accountability is delivered to Butler.
He was awful, Hartley and the rest of the coaches saw it, they know it.
Bad plays, bad turn over cost a goal directly, bad penalty. Just bad for Butler all around.
Now it is up to them to show accountability to the team.
I was angry Butler was resigned. There are 200 other Butler inexpensive type D men in the NHL. He is in no way unique or special.
Yet Feaster sure feels Butler is a commodity.
More like it is comedy he got another contract from Feaster.
Bench him and play Smith. Butler had his chance as a player on the bubble now give Smith his chance or the point of accountability becomes a deaf message from the HC to the team and the fans.

Geezus, I thought you were Netminder there for a second.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Butler isn't as bad as people make him out to be, but he is certainly bad enough at times that making him a healthy scratch after a bad game shouldn't be out of the question. I do think he is being given too much of a benefit of the doubt at times. I would be all in favour of getting rid of him in favour of breaking in Breen, Cundari or Wotherspoon. I'm sure the mistakes would happen just as much, but hopefully they would learn from the experience. I'm not sure Butler has much more room to grow.

I think this is where I stand as well. Butler is a #6 when he isn't making brain farts with frightening consistency. When he is, the #7 should go in.

The only concern with any of those players sans Breen is the amount of ice time they'd get. They'll likely split time as a 7th defence with Smith. Breen probably will play that way for much of his career, but Cundari and Wotherspoon likely would be served better with more minutes in Abbotsford.

I wouldn't be against waiving/trading Smith or Butler (both have some pretty big flaws) and moving Breen up to start a transition.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I tried to temper my Butler hate, but he has been dreadful enough to deserve a spot in the press box. The question must be who can replace him. Flames brass must be low on Smith/Cundari or otherwise they would be in the lineup.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

See the thing is, he is costing the Flames when he is on the ice. We can't get it out of our zone. Which means we aren't getting it into their zone. Which means we cannot score.

Even if he didn't turn it over at the blue line and get scored on last night, he had a horrible game. Watch next time he is in the lineup and see where almost EVERY one of his passes or clearing the puck out of the zone ends up. On the opponents stick. Just because someone bails him out and they don't score against us doesn't mean he isn't hurting the team. The guy continually shows in every game that he lacks hockey IQ. His decision making on the fly is nonexistent.

You state, "The problem is that fans are all over him when he makes a mistake like last night but when Brodie makes the same mistake it's not a big deal." The difference between Brodie and Butler is that Brodie makes things happen. He has shifts that tilt the ice in the Flames favor. He takes risks for the reward. Butler NEVER does that.

Also you do know that Butler is 27 at the end of this month and has played 273 games. Brodie is 23, turning 24 next summer. How you can try to justify a comparison between the two making mistakes is ridiculous.

Chris Butler is the weakest link on the team right now. If you don't believe that to be true you aren't watching the games. Hartley has stated more than once that Smith is practicing hard, working his tail off and isn't happy about being out of the lineup, so I would be more than shocked if he doesn't bump Butler out for the next game. Hopefully he plays well and keeps Butler out of the lineup for a long time.

The coaches see the ice better than all of us and if he was as much a liability as you say he is he would never suit up. Honestly the coaches know what's going on better than we do. Once Breen is healthy I don't have an issue with him taking Butler or SOB's spot for a time to see what he can do but Smith is just awful and if he was part of the solution he wouldn't have been a healthy scratch for the beginning of the season.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Itse

That's a bit of a straw man, nobody has blamed him for all of the teams woes.

Yes and I was exaggerating. I just find it funny all the flack he gets from some even though he's our bottom pairing D man getting 15 minutes of ice a night. Given his reduced role on the team, and relative to everyone else, I really don't see anything so glaringly and consistently bad in his game to warrant all the special, negative attention.

He's not amazing but he's also not so horribly bad he doesn't belong anywhere near the NHL. He helps kill penalties (1 goal against so far) and blocks shots (team lead 14) and nothing else really jumps out at me, positive or negative, on the stats page. But as our 5th or 6th D man I'm okay with that until someone else better comes along.

[Huntingwhale]

[Drury18]

^ Kind of insulting to pylons. They could at least stop someone or a puck coming into our zone.

[HartAttack]

Here's a thought... Maybe Chris Butler and his girlfriend are swingers. And as swingers they've enticed Bob and Jay into a couple of memorable nights they will never forget. As a result, they feel compelled to keep Butler in the lineup... The public cries for Butler's head, while Bob and Jay cry for one more night with the Mrs.

Tough decision

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

Yes and I was exaggerating. I just find it funny all the flack he gets from some even though he's our bottom pairing D man getting 15 minutes of ice a night. Given his reduced role on the team, and relative to everyone else, I really don't see anything so glaringly and consistently bad in his game to warrant all the special, negative attention.

He's not amazing but he's also not so horribly bad he doesn't belong anywhere near the NHL. He helps kill penalties (1 goal against so far) and blocks shots (team lead 14) and nothing else really jumps out at me, positive or negative, on the stats page. But as our 5th or 6th D man I'm okay with that until someone else better comes along.

Thing is, that is pretty much everyone's argument for taking Butler out of the lineup. With the rebuild underway and the added attention that our prospect depth is getting, most people feel that someone better is already in the system and Butler is in the way. Whether this better player is Breen, Cundari, Sieloff, Wotherspoon or Ramage doesn't really matter because the spot is currently being occupied by someone who is not impressing or developing.

When the team was in Win-Now mode with Iginla and Kipper it made sense to have veteran depth defensemen but now it makes a lot more sense to fill those 5/6 spots with young players that have the potential to grow into top 4 roles.

[HartAttack]

Also, I may have just stumbled across a "Jay and Silent Bob" reference... Gonna save that one for future use!!!

[kipperfan]

I'm not going to say he lost us the game yesterday...but we probably would have won if even an average level PeeWee player was playing in his spot.