US government shutdown?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

The blame for this shut down is on both parties. Should the Republicans have started off with a complete defunding of Obamacare, probably not. However, there ending proposal certainly makes sense to me.

If Obama wants to unilaterally delay the implementation of the employer mandate that why is it so unreasonable that the individual mandate be delayed for one year as well. The law was passed like it or not so implement the entire thing as it was meant to be implemented when it was passed or delay all of it for one year. Don't pick and choose what part of the law you want to implement.

Also if Obamacare is as great a thing as everyone seems to think it is than why are Congress and congressional staffers exempt from it. I don't think the GOP request, to all of congress and congressional staffers be subject to the law, is unreasonable.

The Democrats are just as much to blame in this shut down as the GOP.

serious?

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

The blame for this shut down is on both parties. Should the Republicans have started off with a complete defunding of Obamacare, probably not. However, there ending proposal certainly makes sense to me.

If Obama wants to unilaterally delay the implementation of the employer mandate that why is it so unreasonable that the individual mandate be delayed for one year as well. The law was passed like it or not so implement the entire thing as it was meant to be implemented when it was passed or delay all of it for one year. Don't pick and choose what part of the law you want to implement.

Also if Obamacare is as great a thing as everyone seems to think it is than why are Congress and congressional staffers exempt from it. I don't think the GOP request, to all of congress and congressional staffers be subject to the law, is unreasonable.

The Democrats are just as much to blame in this shut down as the GOP.

Typical. Whenever the Republicans do something monumentally stupid, GOP apologists will just go ahead and deflect by saying both parties are to blame. Frankly, if I were a Texan, I would be ashamed to admit it right now. Thank you Texas for giving the world Ted Cruz, who is damn near the worst Senator of all time already. Then there is your wack job Governor Rick Perry, and that ahole Randy Neugebauer. You guys have a knack for electing really stupid insane individuals who have no character and zero likeability. Just what do you see in these people? They are truly awful human beings.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Typical. Whenever the Republicans do something monumentally stupid, GOP apologists will just go ahead and deflect by saying both parties are to blame. Frankly, if I were a Texan, I would be ashamed to admit it right now. Thank you Texas for giving the world Ted Cruz, who is damn near the worst Senator of all time already. Then there is your wack job Governor Rick Perry, and that ahole Randy Neugebauer. You guys have a knack for electing really stupid insane individuals who have no character and zero likeability. Just what do you see in these people? They are truly awful human beings.

I feel ashamed to be Calgarian for giving the world Ted Cruz

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I feel ashamed to be Calgarian for giving the world Ted Cruz

Naw. I'm sure future horses arses are born in Calgary all the time. They have to move to Texas to find enough idiots to elect them.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

The blame for this shut down is on both parties. Should the Republicans have started off with a complete defunding of Obamacare, probably not. However, there ending proposal certainly makes sense to me.

If Obama wants to unilaterally delay the implementation of the employer mandate that why is it so unreasonable that the individual mandate be delayed for one year as well. The law was passed like it or not so implement the entire thing as it was meant to be implemented when it was passed or delay all of it for one year. Don't pick and choose what part of the law you want to implement.

Also if Obamacare is as great a thing as everyone seems to think it is than why are Congress and congressional staffers exempt from it. I don't think the GOP request, to all of congress and congressional staffers be subject to the law, is unreasonable.

The Democrats are just as much to blame in this shut down as the GOP.

Horrible post.

That congressional exemption talking point is the kicker on a subterfuge troll attempt.

If you're remotely concerned with truth and the real world read below to understand the MYTH of the congressional exemption.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...xemption-myth/

[To Be Quite Honest]

I've read a few posts in this thread and watched Fox news so I'm now ready to comment on this massive onion of an issue.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Horrible post.

That congressional exemption talking point is the kicker on a subterfuge troll attempt.

If you're remotely concerned with truth and the real world read below to understand the MYTH of the congressional exemption.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...xemption-myth/

So just because I disagree with your position makes me a troll eh? Nice. Anyway I did do some more research on it and admit that I'm not entirely correct on the exemption, however, don't appear to be entirely incorrect either. It seems that congressman and congressional staffers did have the rules tweaked for them. So really I guess the GOP bill then is just taking away this extra little benefit that congressmen and congressional staffers are getting.

The bigger issue that I see though is that the employer mandate is delayed and the individual mandate isn't. The law was passed with the timelines by a Democrat controlled congress, Democrat controlled Senate, and Democratic president, so why delay a portion of the bill for employers only now when it's the very same bill he signed in the first place?

[Caged Great]

The reason why Obama and the democrats can't cave on this is due to the precedent it sets. There have been 17 prior shut downs and each of them was due to trying to figure out the difference in the budget that each side wanted.

The difference this time is that the Republicans are wanting to scrap a law. What's to say that next time that they don't hold the country hostage to get rid of the EPA, or until they ban abortion, or any of a hundred different things that the republicans don't like.

The Dems need to do exactly nothing. The tea party hold over the house needs to be eliminated and people that actually want the best for the government need to be brought in instead.

Don't get me wrong, I want republicans to have legitimate representation in the government and to be sane. The problem is that these tea party nut jobs are wanting to destroy the government in it's entirety and that is not good for a democracy. This is the type of thing that happened in other places in history before democracy goes away entirely replaced by a not so good authoritarian regime. This fever needs to be broken now.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

So just because I disagree with your position makes me a troll eh? Nice. Anyway I did do some more research on it and admit that I'm not entirely correct on the exemption, however, don't appear to be entirely incorrect either. It seems that congressman and congressional staffers did have the rules tweaked for them. So really I guess the GOP bill then is just taking away this extra little benefit that congressmen and congressional staffers are getting.

The bigger issue that I see though is that the employer mandate is delayed and the individual mandate isn't. The law was passed with the timelines by a Democrat controlled congress, Democrat controlled Senate, and Democratic president, so why delay a portion of the bill for employers only now when it's the very same bill he signed in the first place?

Why do you watch Fox News, and the better question is why do you believe what they say?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

So just because I disagree with your position makes me a troll eh? Nice. Anyway I did do some more research on it and admit that I'm not entirely correct on the exemption, however, don't appear to be entirely incorrect either. It seems that congressman and congressional staffers did have the rules tweaked for them. So really I guess the GOP bill then is just taking away this extra little benefit that congressmen and congressional staffers are getting.

The bigger issue that I see though is that the employer mandate is delayed and the individual mandate isn't. The law was passed with the timelines by a Democrat controlled congress, Democrat controlled Senate, and Democratic president, so why delay a portion of the bill for employers only now when it's the very same bill he signed in the first place?

The bigger issue is why delaying the employer/individual mandate is worth the potential of catastrophe that the shutdown has?

The answer? It's a red herring. You and I can both see that had nothing to do with this...

[Displaced Flames fan]

I'm curious to see how the vote broke on the last vote the House took before the deadline. I'm going to look later and see if I can find it.

[Minnie]

Rockin'Flames needs to watch a little Schoolhouse Rock and reacquaint himself with a few things.

[photon]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/republ...003-2uxak.html

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The reason why Obama and the democrats can't cave on this is due to the precedent it sets. There have been 17 prior shut downs and each of them was due to trying to figure out the difference in the budget that each side wanted.

The difference this time is that the Republicans are wanting to scrap a law. What's to say that next time that they don't hold the country hostage to get rid of the EPA, or until they ban abortion, or any of a hundred different things that the republicans don't like.

The Dems need to do exactly nothing. The tea party hold over the house needs to be eliminated and people that actually want the best for the government need to be brought in instead.

Don't get me wrong, I want republicans to have legitimate representation in the government and to be sane. The problem is that these tea party nut jobs are wanting to destroy the government in it's entirety and that is not good for a democracy. This is the type of thing that happened in other places in history before democracy goes away entirely replaced by a not so good authoritarian regime. This fever needs to be broken now.

Other historical signs of authoritarianism rising are governments running up insurmountable debts, contracting its overseas commitments, and turning a suspicious eye on its own population. So its a good thing that at least this isn't happening right now

[CaptainCrunch]

This should be interesting if it doesn't get solved in the next week or two. I'm flying down to a conference in Dallas on the 13th. Is there any chance of this effecting me if I fly down and this isn't solved and the debt ceiling thing doesn't get resolved?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This should be interesting if it doesn't get solved in the next week or two. I'm flying down to a conference in Dallas on the 13th. Is there any chance of this effecting me if I fly down and this isn't solved and the debt ceiling thing doesn't get resolved?

Forget that... Is this the reason APOD is down? That's the real travesty in this whole situation.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by karl262

Other historical signs of authoritarianism rising are governments running up insurmountable debts, contracting its overseas commitments, and turning a suspicious eye on its own population. So its a good thing that at least this isn't happening right now

Well, the deficit has dropped by nearly 1 trillion a year (1.5 in 2009 to 650 billion now). It's not fixed, but there are things that could help knock that down further. Ending Afghanistan would knock 100 billion a year off alone, let alone reducing the military a bit because of the lack of having any current conflicts to fight. Amusingly, Obamacare itself will reduce the deficit by about 200 billion over the next ten year, both from savings and some small tax increases on the the top 1%.

With contracting overseas commitments, what are you talking about? Does it have to do with the fact that they aren't bombing everyone in the middle east?

The spying is the biggest concern of mine on that list and it is a very worrying sign that needs to be addressed.

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Why do you watch Fox News, and the better question is why do you believe what they say?

Same thing could be said for people who watch CNN and MSNBC.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Same thing could be said for people who watch CNN and MSNBC.

Woah. While no news is completely unbiased, your making some pretty huge false equivalences here. Fox news bias and falsification is not anywhere near any other network. Not even close.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Same thing could be said for people who watch CNN and MSNBC.

False equivalencies are false.

Facts are facts, spin is spin. You're more likely to get facts on either CNN or MSNBC instead of RNC talking points like you do on Fox.