Training Camp Predictions & Discussion

[Mitch]

I don't think there is any chance Ferland starts the year in the NHL. It's great that he lost weight, had a great tournament, and looks like he has a change of attitude. However I don't think it would make any sense after jumping around from AHL to ECHL to WHL last year to put him onto the big club just so he can be on the 4th line with limited playing time.

Personally I would like to see him in the AHL for most of the season, to see if he can stick and hopefully develop some consistency.

If he plays well in the AHL and there are opportunities because of injuries, then I would be all for it.

[bubbsy]

my opinion is htat there is no reason to "oiler-up" this rebuild. if it's a close call on a player to get bottom line minutes in the NHL, then let them go back to their respective minor team (AHL, CHL). Can a guy like reinhart come in and play on the flames 4th line? Yes i think so. But i'd much rather him play the 2nd line with the heat and be much more prepared later in hte season or next year.

to be fair, i don't see any of our prospects of the "the player has nothing left to achieve in juniour" variety. So being sent down is just fine. Patience will be a solid approach in my opinion.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

my opinion is htat there is no reason to "oiler-up" this rebuild. if it's a close call on a player to get bottom line minutes in the NHL, then let them go back to their respective minor team (AHL, CHL). Can a guy like reinhart come in and play on the flames 4th line? Yes i think so. But i'd much rather him play the 2nd line with the heat and be much more prepared later in hte season or next year.

to be fair, i don't see any of our prospects of the "the player has nothing left to achieve in juniour" variety. So being sent down is just fine. Patience will be a solid approach in my opinion.

Monahan. But he'll likely get sent down anyways.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

How do you know?

And how do you know Reinhart/Knight's offense will translate to be better then Horaks? Horak was no slouch with 78 pts in 64 games in juniors.

How do I know that Knight and Reinhart are bigger and stronger? Seriously?

And to the second paragraph, I never said their offense would translate better - I said they are more suited to bottom 6 roles because they are bigger and play bigger.

What I said was: Horak needs to provide offense as well, otherwise Knight / Reinhart will replace him.

[8sPOT]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You know what's worse? Preaching doing a rebuild properly then rushing a guy to the NHL for no other reason than he is young. Ferland is the perfect example, sure he looked good in the rookie tournament and against the Dinos. But there is no way a guy that wasn't good enough to hold down an ECHL roster spot last year is good enough to be in the NHL this year.

Shane O'Brien is actually quite a bit like Sieloff. Breen as you mentioned also fits that description, and while Cundari doesn't have size he loves to hit too.

True. It's a double-edge sword. But you can't rebuild without some injection of youth. Otherwise its the same thing we've seen the last 4 years.

I don't expect young guys to be there if not deserved. But I do expect a young guy to get a spot if he's on par with a vet.

If Ferland shows equal to or more than Jackman, McGrattan, and say Blair Jones then he should be on the team.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How do I know that Knight and Reinhart are bigger and stronger? Seriously?

And to the second paragraph, I never said their offense would translate better - I said they are more suited to bottom 6 roles because they are bigger and play bigger.

What I said was: Horak needs to provide offense as well, otherwise Knight / Reinhart will replace him.

No, just stronger. Size isn't always the determining factor. Example, Oleg Saprykin and Kobasew were both bigger and heavier but were easily tossed around like a rag doll. I think Dustin Boyd had 15 lbs on Horak as a rookie. Yet, in area of the ice that do matter, Horak won a lot more battles and was stronger on his skates then all 3 above.

Offense will come over time, but Horak's bread and butter is he's a smart and effective player. I don't think those attributes, which are very underrated and seemingly ignored by many, are missed and will likely be the reason you see him on the Flames roster.

[Enoch Root]

Knight and Reinhart both play a bigger game than Horak - more suited to bottom 6

[flamesrule14]

Horak is an interesting case for me. He's one guy I'm really curious to see how he does this training camp. Don't get me wrong I really like Horak, but he is a guy that could fall down the depth chart if he doesn't have a good camp. At center we potentially have Monahan staying for the year and guys like Reinhart, Knight and Granlund will be right their with him battling for a spot. Even if he moves to wing there are guys potentially better suited for bottom 6 icetime in Hanowski, Ferland and some veteran guys. Could very well be a case of me underestimated Horak, but I really could see having trouble sticking and getting passed by some guys.

[Brimstone]

Granlund is a bit of an X-factor here, I've liked what I've seen from him in the prospects tournament and the prospects development camp, and my buddies in Finland say he might be a better player then his brother. I also remember Conroy telling the boys on the radio that Granlund is probably the best shoot-out guy they have in the organization. I think he sticks in Calgary this season.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Knight and Reinhart both play a bigger game than Horak - more suited to bottom 6

Lots of players play a bigger game at a lower level, but against NHL competition, their advantages get averaged out.

FTR : having seen Reinhart's stint with the Flames, I think he'll get significant time in Calgary. I don't think it will come at the expense of Horak's spot though. Just my own prediction.

[bubbsy]

i'm probably going to get some flack for this, but i'm unclear on Horak. What impressed about him as that he could play at the speed of the NHL and not look out of place, and isn't a liability on the ice.

However, he also doesn't appear to be able to drive offense, isn't a defensive specialist, is below avg at faceoffs (45% last year).

So where does that leave him? 3rd line checking center/winger? does his style of play mean he could be successful there, i don't think so.

curious to see where he fits in this season.

[Poe969]

I agree, I don't think Horak has a place on this team. If there is a deal to be made where we take on a contract, I can see him going the other way (if it happens)

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

i'm probably going to get some flack for this, but i'm unclear on Horak. What impressed about him as that he could play at the speed of the NHL and not look out of place, and isn't a liability on the ice.

Do you think he looks out of place and is a liability?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

i'm probably going to get some flack for this, but i'm unclear on Horak. What impressed about him as that he could play at the speed of the NHL and not look out of place, and isn't a liability on the ice.

However, he also doesn't appear to be able to drive offense, isn't a defensive specialist, is below avg at faceoffs (45% last year).

So where does that leave him? 3rd line checking center/winger? does his style of play mean he could be successful there, i don't think so.

curious to see where he fits in this season.

I sort of a agree with what you are saying. The one thing is that when we got Horak he was projected as a 3rd line checking player. Everything up to this date that i have seen, has him on track for that. Are posters wanting Horak out because they were in some disillusion that he would be a 2nd line player?

I do think in the next 2 years that at least 2 of Horak, Grandlund, Backlund, Knight and Reinhart will be gone in trade. I don't think there is any chance of Reinhart being shipped out but i put him on the list. Now that i look at the list i think 3 will be gone.

[bubbsy]

sorry, not sure if my post was confusing.

the point i was trying to make is that he doesn't look out of place (ie. can keep up with the speed, etc), but really doesn't do much when he's out there. it's like he's basically just playing filler minutes, but doesn't really accomplish anything....

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Knight and Reinhart both play a bigger game than Horak - more suited to bottom 6

How can you judge what type of game Knight plays? He hasn't suited up for the Flames outside of the young stars games and he was underwhelming in his performance there. Wasn't physical, wasn't great in the dot and didn't do a helluva lot to lead me to believe he's a NHL player right now.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

sorry, not sure if my post was confusing.

the point i was trying to make is that he doesn't look out of place (ie. can keep up with the speed, etc), but really doesn't do much when he's out there. it's like he's basically just playing filler minutes, but doesn't really accomplish anything....

On the apperance of that, you could say that. But not all roles have to be "either you are a sniper, playmaker, big/fast hitting checker or fighter" ..... I see Horak's role similar to a Marcus Nilsson, or Craig Conroy type role. Dan Cleary, albeit more skills, helped his team out a ton without having a major role. Maybe if we're really lucky, Kris Draper but a little slower?

Smart players who make teammates around them better, can't be under estimated. So yes, a "filter" if you don't pin a a guy to have a game breaking trait, but I don't think you can just put thing like what Horak brings into a single word to describe his significance/contribution.

Maybe I overrate Horak though...

[bubbsy]

if horak could develop into any of the guys u mentioned, we would all be estatic.

but i don't think he has the speed and forechecking ability of nilsson/cleary. conroy is a bit of a pipe dream. conroy in his prime was a 1b/2nd line center.

i'm think of someone like yelle wihout the grit and defensive prowess.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

if horak could develop into any of the guys u mentioned, we would all be estatic.

but i don't think he has the speed and forechecking ability of nilsson/cleary. conroy is a bit of a pipe dream. conroy in his prime was a 1b/2nd line center.

i'm think of someone like yelle wihout the grit and defensive prowess.

I don't recall Nilson having a lot of speed pre-knee injuries in 2007. I remember he was a pretty decent skater but no speedster. Conroy is a bit of a pipe dream, but hey... optimistic right? Who knows, he could totally bomb out and never play another game in the NHL. I just choose to be optimistic about the prospects of this prospect... really like the way Horak plays the game, even though I realize he doesn't particularly excel in any one trait. I don't think any of those guys are out of the range of possibility.... not like I was saying Jere Lehtonen or anything. Just guys who maybe didn't excel in any one thing but can still offer a lot fo a team.

[djsFlames]

If it comes down to Knight vs. Granlund for the 3rd C spot, I wonder who will come out on top. Right now Granlund is making a better case. Which I'm pretty surprised by, cause Knight was said to be as NHL ready as they come.