Jason Kenney wants to take away Cdn citizenship from terrorists

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

Could you provide numbers in terms of percentages or even raw figures of the amount of "useless and disruptive" immigrants entering the country?

Off the top of my head, no I can't. But what figure or percentage is acceptable to you?

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Off the top of my head, no I can't. But what figure or percentage is acceptable to you?

I cannot make that sort of subjective call, but you seem to be all over it.

I'll do you a favor and throw some numbes at you.

In 2011 permanent residents accounted for 0.7% or 248,748 bodies of Canada's population.

Of these 248,748 38,534 entered as spouses, 2740 as children, 14,078 as parents. 156,121 entered Canada on an "Economic basis", in that they were deemed to be able to contribute to society. 27,872 were refugees.

Phillipines accounted for 34,991, China 28,696, India 24,965, USA 8,829, Iran (Terrorists) 6840, UK 6550....

289,112 of the toal immigrants are fluent in english.

Source: Stats Canada


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...ut-immigration

Good article about immigrant statistics. Immigrants are less prone to crime then natural Canadians and generally more educated.

http://www.cifar.ca/arrival-of-the-f...e-a-connection

This article describes how crime in Canada is dropping with greater immigration....... not a causal effect but it is observed.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-.../imm02-eng.htm

Stats Canada page showing a relationship between crime and immigrants. Immigrants are way less prone to crime.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...rime-rate.html

Excellent article about immigration bolestring Canada's safe record.

So please Rerun, if your going to post something be objective and not subjective and don't go on reason of whim.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So am I wrong for wanting the standard set higher than its been in the past?

Or should we just get rid of all standards, qualifications, and regulations and let everybody who has the where withal to cross our shores, become a Canadian citizen? We certainly would solve our population problem that way.

We should have a fair immigration process, not a xenophobic one. When you assume a large chunk coming will be useless, you'll probably have very restrictive immigration which will drive immigrants away. Unless you people to start going old school and having 5+ kids in a family (please God no), we need immigrants. Trying to scare them away won't help.

Also, the worst part of your rant before relating to "druggies and criminals and cabbies". Cabbies eh? You do know many cab drivers have university level degrees from their home country, but that those degrees are not really transferable here right? You think immigrants decide to come over to Canada because they want to be a ####ing cab driver? And like US Tea Partiers who fear every non-white, non-Christian person, you want to drive away the people who do all the jobs nobody here wants to do (like drive a cab?).

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Off the top of my head, no I can't. But what figure or percentage is acceptable to you?

there should be a box on their immigration papers that says 'useless and disruptive', and if they check the box, we don't let them in

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

We should have a fair immigration process, not a xenophobic one. When you assume a large chunk coming will be useless, you'll probably have very restrictive immigration which will drive immigrants away. Unless you people to start going old school and having 5+ kids in a family (please God no), we need immigrants. Trying to scare them away won't help.

Also, the worst part of your rant before relating to "druggies and criminals and cabbies". Cabbies eh? You do know many cab drivers have university level degrees from their home country, but that those degrees are not really transferable here right? You think immigrants decide to come over to Canada because they want to be a ####ing cab driver? And like US Tea Partiers who fear every non-white, non-Christian person, you want to drive away the people who do all the jobs nobody here wants to do (like drive a cab?).

I'm not assuming that a large chunk will be useless. I know that its just a small chunk, but anything that we can do to reduce in numbers that small chunk is ok with me.
As for cab drivers with university degrees, I'm sure a number of them do (however I do think that in most cases its an urban myth)... but thats the problem... their university degree is useless because obviously its not recognized in Canada.. therefore they are essentially unskilled. I'd rather have a machinist come here that can practice his trade than a lawyer who cannot and is unskilled at anything else.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Who wants high numbers when those numbers include criminals, gang members, the unskilled and un/under-educated, welfare recipients, taxi cab drivers, waitresses, and terrorists.

Its time to set the immigration bar a little higher and I'm glad the Conservatives are doing it.

Canada is a great country with a lot to offer, and its about time we stopped letting just about anybody in, just as long as they were breathing.

Canada will always be a primo destination to emmigrate to, but its about time we started keeping the riff raff out. We have enough home grown riff raff, as it is. We don't need any more, coming here from elsewhere..

You realize that all of those people could be Canadian born as well, right?

Originally Posted by Rerun

I'm not assuming that a large chunk will be useless. I know that its just a small chunk, but anything that we can do to reduce in numbers that small chunk is ok with me.
As for cab drivers with university degrees, I'm sure a number of them do (however I do think that in most cases its an urban myth)... but thats the problem... their university degree is useless because obviously its not recognized in Canada.. therefore they are essentially unskilled. I'd rather have a machinist come here that can practice his trade than a lawyer who cannot and is unskilled at anything else.

Or, we could create programs to recognize those degrees so they can be productive in Canadian society with the skills they have.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Rathji

You realize that all of those people could be Canadian born as well, right?

Which is why I said we have enough home grown riff raff... not that I meant that cabbies and waitresses are riff raff... they aren't I was speaking about the others.

Originally Posted by Rathji

Or, we could create programs to recognize those degrees so they can be productive in Canadian society with the skills they have.

Good idea and I hope it happens... but until it does, lets give priority to those that have easily transferable skills.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I'm Canadian and I've lived in Canada all my life and I take pride in my country.... so why shouldn't I take it personally?

Well, the point is that all your providing to the discussion is emotional arguments based on your own feelings. It's a practical issue and your personal feelings getting hurt is just not very important, so you're not contributing anything of value to the discussion. Nobody should care whether or not Rerun's feelings get hurt, or what kind of people Rerun doesn't like. It's a discussion of meaningful practical consequences for Canadians.

[jayswin]

A wise man once told me that Rerun is the Don Cherry of Calgarypuck.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Which is why I said we have enough home grown riff raff... not that I meant that cabbies and waitresses are riff raff... they aren't I was speaking about the others.

Which explains why you stuck them inbetween criminals and terrorists?

"Who wants high numbers when those numbers include criminals, gang members, the unskilled and un/under-educated, welfare recipients, taxi cab drivers, waitresses, and terrorists."

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

This right here is key. Canada is already, for its future, trending on a very poor population strategy. Immigration allow us to bolster our non-natural numbers while allowing for more babies to be naturally born in Canada.

This is very true, Canada is in the midst of a birth rate decline and will actually be forced to nearly triple it's current immigration numbers very soon in order to keep up with providing things like social services, to our aging population. Otherwise we simply will not have the tax base to keep our economy and social programs going at the current rate.

While Rerun may speak rather ineloquently at times, he does have a point.

Right now we do have a lot of job mismatching going on (doctors driving cabs), the government does have a role to play in this, but certification boards have a much larger one. Immigrants can't even start the process before entering Canada, sometimes are given unclear or blatant misinformation and massive prohibitive costs. If you are going to waste your time bringing them to Canada, you should make sure their abilities are not wasted (and you should also make sure they Immigrants themselves will not waste it either).

The refugee program is an extremely costly one for Canadians, especially since there is no guarantee of them ever being productive in Canadian society. I can understand disagreements with this program.

Also I would argue that we don't really have a xenophobic immigration system, but we certainly do have elements of an ethnocentric one. When employers are given a choice of recruiting unskilled labour, where do they go? To the Philippines of course. Right now they have the highest number of unskilled workers in Canada of any country by a large margin. They also have longish transit times for Visa processing and some restrictions on recruitment.

Isn't this essentially ranking a culture?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

While Rerun may speak rather ineloquently at times, he does have a point.

Right now we do have a lot of job mismatching going on (doctors driving cabs), the government does have a role to play in this, but certification boards have a much larger one. Immigrants can't even start the process before entering Canada, sometimes are given unclear or blatant misinformation and massive prohibitive costs. If you are going to waste your time bringing them to Canada, you should make sure their abilities are not wasted (and you should also make sure they Immigrants themselves will not waste it either).

I don't think Rerun's point was that there is job mismatching going on with immigrants, but you are correct that he speaks rather ineloquently.

[JazzyFlame]

Rerun no rebuttle?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

While Rerun may speak rather ineloquently at times, he does have a point.

Right now we do have a lot of job mismatching going on (doctors driving cabs), the government does have a role to play in this, but certification boards have a much larger one. Immigrants can't even start the process before entering Canada, sometimes are given unclear or blatant misinformation and massive prohibitive costs. If you are going to waste your time bringing them to Canada, you should make sure their abilities are not wasted (and you should also make sure they Immigrants themselves will not waste it either).

The problem is that is that immigrants don't want to move to where the jobs are. There are many smaller cities and towns up north that have serious doctors shortages, but they don't want to live there. They may not want to drive cabs in Toronto, but they would still rather do that than be a doctor in Prince George or Red Lake.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The problem is that is that immigrants don't want to move to where the jobs are. There are many smaller cities and towns up north that have serious doctors shortages, but they don't want to live there. They may not want to drive cabs in Toronto, but they would still rather do that than be a doctor in Prince George or Red Lake.

To be fair some of those small canadian towns/cities are pretty bad places (relative to Canada of course) and not that friendly for immigrants.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flameswin

To be fair some of those small canadian towns/cities are pretty bad places (relative to Canada of course) and not that friendly for immigrants.

True. I grew up in one of them.

And when I was trying to get a foot in the door for my career, I did my time in such a place.

I know when my family came here it was a little different because it was a real refugee/politcal asylum situation, but they (the Canadian Government) completely facilitated the move into a smaller city that needed workers. The laws then were obviously different and I don't see why that isn't a reasonable expectation. The city was Thunder Bay, and it's true that it wasn't "immigrant friendly", but it probably is moreso now because of that policy.

Back in the 90s, I was living back in Thunder Bay when a group of Kosovo refugees came in and it was a similar situation but their transition was a lot easier.

[Canada 02]

the concern has to be that Kenney (like the OP) starts off with a seemingly reasonable proposal to target terrorists, but then the true agenda shines through, and they start targeting taxi drivers, waitresses, un/under educated, as if they are the same as criminals, gang members and terrorists

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The problem is that is that immigrants don't want to move to where the jobs are. There are many smaller cities and towns up north that have serious doctors shortages, but they don't want to live there. They may not want to drive cabs in Toronto, but they would still rather do that than be a doctor in Prince George or Red Lake.

So, you're saying that these folks have a choice between practising medicine out of town or driving a cab and they choose to be a cab driver because they like big cities or dislike small towns.

Got anything to back that up?

Let me offer another possible scenario.

They can't get their credentials recognised in Canada and simply can't practice their chosen profession.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

Rerun no rebuttle?

Rerun's mind is bottled, so no rebuttle.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by jammies

That's not really "targeting a specific ethnic group" any more than the sign on Highway 1 between Calgary and Banff warning "Watch for pedestrians on the road" just by the reserve "targets" First Nations people as drunken hitchhikers.

Here's a crazy thought - maybe they looked into this, saw that a disproportionate amount of bogus claimants were from Hungary, and that a disproportionate amount of Hungarian rejects originally lived in Miskolc, and thus decided that's where the billboards should go. That seems a lot simpler an explanation than that the Canadian government has decided the Roma need not apply.

Further, isn't Hungary part of the EU? So couldn't these "refugees" just move to another EU country? Why do they need to seek asylum in Canada? Not that I'm discounting that they might actually face persecution, but I'd rather give asylum to people who have no other hope, rather than people who have many choices about where they could go.

No, the billboards are definitely targeting Roma. That's the group making the immigration applications from that area, and Kenney has specifically referred to the Roma in the past as disproportionate abusers of the refugee system. All you need is 10 seconds and google to find abundant evidence of Kenney's attitude toward this particular ethnic group.

But the Roma's choices are not as simple as that - multiple (particularly Eastern) EU countries have adopted anti-Roma policies, and it is my understanding the EU countries do not allow refugee claims from other EU countries - meaning it's hard for them to move to those countries and obtain work.

All of which is, of course, tangential to the original topic of discussion: how Canada is perceived abroad.