Sorry for exploiting your land and letting you live in poverty. Here's a $1000.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by return to the red

Well people seem to be taking issue with the fact that the US government is only giving each individual person $1000 AT THIS TIME, even the thread title suggests that the government is trying to only pay $X. The quotes in the article suggest that this was the only thing offered and they had to accept it, which they didn't have to.

IMHO you have no right to complain that you didn't receive enough when you yourself accepted the amount.

I'm confused. This is a settlement of a claim against a trustee for monies owed. They were offered a settlement, nothing indicates whether they countered or how they came to their number, but as I said they likely factored in the risks and costs of litigation. This doesn't buy the government the right to do anything, nor does it deprive the tribes of any future benefits.

Think of it this way. You claim I owe you $250, but going to court for it will cost you $30 and there's a chance you may lose. I offer you $200 cash to walk away.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by return to the red

Well people seem to be taking issue with the fact that the US government is only giving each individual person $1000 AT THIS TIME, even the thread title suggests that the government is trying to only pay $X. The quotes in the article suggest that this was the only thing offered and they had to accept it, which they didn't have to.

IMHO you have no right to complain that you didn't receive enough when you yourself accepted the amount.

I am pretty sure they were negotiating for more than 10 years. The woman who brought the case forward is no longer alive.

[getbak]

There seems to be a lot of missing money here.

The settlement was $3.4 billion. $60 million is going into a scholarship fund. Giving $1000 each to 350,000 people is $350 million.

What's happening with the remaining almost $3 billion?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by getbak

There seems to be a lot of missing money here.

The settlement was $3.4 billion. $60 million is going into a scholarship fund. Giving $1000 each to 350,000 people is $350 million.

What's happening with the remaining almost $3 billion?

Thats the Lawyers cut (according to Rerun)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

Yeah Integration is probably a better word to use.

And the wife beating husband analogy doesn't work. It'd be more like if the wife and wife beating husband died and the son who is now far wealthier and has a completely different attitude then his father, invited the daughter of the wife to join his family.

You can't really say that when natives are still being abused and mistreated (off and on the reservation) on a consistent basis.

And, no, Canada's attitude towards multiculturalism may be involving, but attitudes towards natives are nowhere near as progressive. Again, we've tried the integration/assimilation thing more than once. Why should they trust that we'll get it right this time?

I guess Poland should've just integrated with Germany (twice) and Russia, right? I mean, the land was won fair and square.

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I guess Poland should've just integrated with Germany (twice) and Russia, right? I mean, the land was won fair and square.

Last I checked the Germans lost the war (twice) and the Russians were overthrown in an uprising.

This isn't even a comparable situation.

Many more wars took place and far more blood was spilled throughout the centuries fighting over Poland's borders.

Check your history.

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by polak

Last I checked the Germans lost the war (twice) and the Russians were overthrown in an uprising.

This isn't even a comparable situation.

Many more wars took place and far more blood was spilled throughout the centuries fighting over Poland's borders.

Check your history.

and if the aboriginals uprose you call them terrorists.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

and if the aboriginals uprose you call them terrorists.

Well I'm sure the Soviets did the same. Which side of the fight you're on obviously colors your perception.

[Tinordi]

Ultimately the solution does involve promoting First Nations people to move off reserve and to seek better opportunities. Almost all social outcomes are better for First Nations people who move off reserve. Problem is is that there's a deep historical legacy there and a culture of domination and subversion by the Government to these people.

Complicated problem, not really well suited to some jackoff in an internet forum conjuring up a silver bullet.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

Last I checked the Germans lost the war (twice) and the Russians were overthrown in an uprising.

This isn't even a comparable situation.

Many more wars took place and far more blood was spilled throughout the centuries fighting over Poland's borders.

Check your history.

Last I checked the Germans were overthrown by external forces, and the Russians by an uprising within the country. Either way, I don't think in the 40+ years the Soviets held a grip on the country, that there was a desire by the Polish to assimilate into Soviet society.

If you really want a comparable situation, we can talk about the Irish.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by opendoor

If by "always" you mean for the last few years. It's not like potlatches weren't banned for nearly a century or that First Nations children weren't taken from their parents and stuffed into hell hole residential schools in a scheme to abolish native culture.

Yes, I should have clarified. We weren't very accommodating of the Japanese Canadians during WW2.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You can't really say that when natives are still being abused and mistreated (off and on the reservation) on a consistent basis.

And, no, Canada's attitude towards multiculturalism may be involving, but attitudes towards natives are nowhere near as progressive. Again, we've tried the integration/assimilation thing more than once. Why should they trust that we'll get it right this time?

I guess Poland should've just integrated with Germany (twice) and Russia, right? I mean, the land was won fair and square.

Assimilation in 2012 wouldn't be what assimilation in the early 1900s was like, which is why I used the word. Yes I agree that integration is a better word though.

We all know that Canada is a strong multicultural country, and we all know that the government wouldn't just force them to abandon all their traditions.

Either way, the reserve system is broken, and I think the only way going forward is to get rid of it.

If you start now, maybe in 100 years you'll start seeing decent results.

[rubecube]

Or you could make band leaders more accountable. I know they'd probably hate it, but why not start demanding audits?

[Azure]

Well since you can't just up and abolish the reserve system tomorrow, and expect good results on Sunday; you have to work with the band leaders, so demanding audits is in my mind a great start.

I just think that in 2012, it is pretty deplorable that we segregate a group of people into 'reserves.'

[CaramonLS]

There is also a culture on some reserves which seeks to crush ambition as well.

There was a guy in my organization who was hired from Hobbema - he actually had a gang of 5 guys from the reserve physically assault him and forced him to quit.

Their reasoning: "Making them look bad by working".

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Or you could make band leaders more accountable. I know they'd probably hate it, but why not start demanding audits?

They should be more accountable, but it is not our place to make them so

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Last I checked the Germans were overthrown by external forces, and the Russians by an uprising within the country. Either way, I don't think in the 40+ years the Soviets held a grip on the country, that there was a desire by the Polish to assimilate into Soviet society.

If you really want a comparable situation, we can talk about the Irish.

Neither the Germans or the Russians segregated the Poles.
Also Europe is different in that there are so many more ethnic groups and they all disagree (not as much anymore though) on what land belongs to who as empires have come and gone throughout the history of the region. For example Poland could argue that half the stupid continent is "theirs" because at one point, that is how wide their empire reached.

Europe is definitely a different beast.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by polak

Neither the Germans or the Russians segregated the Poles.
Also Europe is different in that there are so many more ethnic groups and they all disagree (not as much anymore though) on what land belongs to who as empires have come on gone throughout the history of the region. For example Poland could argue that half the stupid continent is "theirs" because at one point, that is how wide their empire reached.

Europe is definitely a different beast.

More to the point regardless of who was or is in control of what in europe there are no indigenous visible minorities, there are Polish Germans, Polish Poles and Polish Russians who all look and sound the same, any German Pole or Russian can and will be virtually indistiguishable with the others within a generation or so of being taken over, their cultures are all close enough that this can be acheived with little loss of 'self'.

As another poster has sugested the Irish would be a better example although even there the vast majority of Irish and English get along fine and I doubt an Irish computor tech in London would worry about being turned down for a job because of his accent or visa versa in Dublin ( I will grant that there might be an individual that might turn down an applicant but I'd guess it would be more likely the english guy in Dublin getting screwed than the other way around these days).