Mandatory sentencing for marijuana went into effect today

[nik-]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

are you kidding ... buzz off with the personal attacks in threads I am not even posting in.

troll and reported.

You're like a heatseeking sensitivity missile.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Scenario 1 pot is illegal:
Guy gets home after work and smokes a bowl plays some black ops, chows down on some KD and goes to bed. Gets up for work no hangover completely sober and has a productive day.

Scenario 2 pot is legal:
Guy buys a pack of Export A purple kush and decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, that's ok it's legal right, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

Ya, I'll take scenario 1 for my kids.

I know that's an extreme case and that the guy could just as easily down a 26 of vodka on his break but the THC roadside test is not exactly perfected and 100% of the people I have ever known who smoke pot have had zero issues getting behind the wheel slightly after.

Whats stopping this scenario today? legal or not, this could happen.

Guy ...decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Also I know plenty of people that smoke marijuana before they go to the gym as they feel it gives me energy.

I'm sorry HOOT, but that was too great of an example of stoner grammar to pass over in this thread.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Scenario 1 pot is illegal:
Guy gets home after work and smokes a bowl plays some black ops, chows down on some KD and goes to bed. Gets up for work no hangover completely sober and has a productive day.

Scenario 2 pot is legal:
Guy buys a pack of Export A purple kush and decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, that's ok it's legal right, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

Ya, I'll take scenario 1 for my kids.

I know that's an extreme case and that the guy could just as easily down a 26 of vodka on his break but the THC roadside test is not exactly perfected and 100% of the people I have ever known who smoke pot have had zero issues getting behind the wheel slightly after.

I'm prettty sure that drug testing would become a staple in places where you need to be sober and not under the influence of anything.

Except instead of being arrested for being under the influence you'd merely be fired.

You can be terminated for drinking or being drunk on every job, it would be the same with dope.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Also I know plenty of people that smoke marijuana before they go to the gym as they feel it gives me energy. .

Sure your not talking about crystal meth, cause I gotta tell you, I smoke back some of that bad boy and I feel like I can bench press a bus

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Scenario 1 pot is illegal:
Guy gets home after work and smokes a bowl plays some black ops, chows down on some KD and goes to bed. Gets up for work no hangover completely sober and has a productive day.

Scenario 2 pot is legal:
Guy buys a pack of Export A purple kush and decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, that's ok it's legal right, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

Ya, I'll take scenario 1 for my kids.

I know that's an extreme case and that the guy could just as easily down a 26 of vodka on his break but the THC roadside test is not exactly perfected and 100% of the people I have ever known who smoke pot have had zero issues getting behind the wheel slightly after.

hypotheticals and red herrings

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that your scenarios are mutually exclusive to whether pot is legal, and to suggest that legalizing it would make even the slightest bit of difference in that regard

Please explain then.

I find it completely not ridiculous.

Your telling me that legalization will not change anything other then making the world "completely awesome bro".

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

Your arguement holds no water because people make decisions on what the outcome will be. If the outcome has the potential for jail time or monetary risk people are less likely to choose that decision.

If there was no DUI law do you think people would just decide not to drive home after a few beers?

Or are you saying that people who smoke pot have zero regard for personal wealth, freedom and safety?

Come on man you cant have it both ways. I used an extreme example to make an extreme point. I'm not against pot or people who smoke it I'm just saying with legalization comes restrictions that will be worse then the current law.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Please explain then.

I find it completely not ridiculous.

Your telling me that legalization will not change anything other then making the world "completely awesome bro".

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

Your arguement holds no water because people make decisions on what the outcome will be. If the outcome has the potential for jail time or monetary risk people are less likely to choose that decision.

Or are you saying that people who smoke pot have zero regard for personal wealth, freedom and safety?

I think it is fairly safe to say that him smoking dope beside the bus and then driving would be illegal in either situation and definitely would get him fired.

Also anyone willing to smoke up and drive a bus full of kids around probably isn't to worried about the ramifications of getting caught smoking dope, illegal or not.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Please explain then.

I find it completely not ridiculous.

Your telling me that legalization will not change anything other then making the world "completely awesome bro".

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

Your arguement holds no water because people make decisions on what the outcome will be. If the outcome has the potential for jail time or monetary risk people are less likely to choose that decision.

Or are you saying that people who smoke pot have zero regard for personal wealth, freedom and safety?

You're way off base. First off as it stands right now you can be charged for impaired operation of a motor vehicle by drug (ie marihuana). Second, even if possession and purchase of marihuana is legalized it doesn't change the criminal law prohibiting that person from driving the "school bus".

The proposition that Washington and Colorado passed effectively places marihuana in the same category as liquor.

[OffsideSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Please explain then.

I find it completely not ridiculous.

Your telling me that legalization will not change anything other then making the world "completely awesome bro".

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

Your arguement holds no water because people make decisions on what the outcome will be. If the outcome has the potential for jail time or monetary risk people are less likely to choose that decision.

If there was no DUI law do you think people would just decide not to drive home after a few beers?

Or are you saying that people who smoke pot have zero regard for personal wealth, freedom and safety?

Come on man you cant have it both ways. I used an extreme example to make an extreme point. I'm not against pot or people who smoke it I'm just saying with legalization comes restrictions that will be worse then the current law.

Uhm, no. Both of those scenarios could happen with pot being both legal and illegal. Legalizing pot would not make it okay to smoke it anywhere, it would still be a controlled substance like booze. Surely you can't think smoking up and driving would be a-okay if pot were legalized. Especially if he were in control of children! You can bet he would be fired on the spot for smoking a joint if he were about to drive regardless of whether the substance is legal or not, much like alcohol is legal and he would get fired for drinking beers during his break. By the way, The way you are talking to me shows that you are utterly ridiculous, stop putting words in my mouth.

For the record, I don't smoke and don't really care about it either way.

[Thor]

What I always find fascinating is this idea that if legalized all of a sudden throngs of people will start doing it.

You certainly will have a small percentage of people that do, most likely just to try it and then go back to their mainstay, booze, or whatever... But to suggest legalization is going to make rampant users is not going to happen.

I smoked on rare occasions when I was younger, if legalized I have zero interest in starting to smoke again, maybe a brownie though mmmmm.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

You don't even seem to understand your own example. The act that would get him fired and possibly facing jail time is operating a commercial motor vehicle with children in it while impaired. That would be the case whether marijuana was legal or not. Your example does nothing to illustrate a dichotomy between pot being legal and being illegal.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Scenario 1 pot is illegal:
Guy gets home after work and smokes a bowl plays some black ops, chows down on some KD and goes to bed. Gets up for work no hangover completely sober and has a productive day.

Scenario 2 pot is legal:
Guy buys a pack of Export A purple kush and decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, that's ok it's legal right, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

Ya, I'll take scenario 1 for my kids.

I know that's an extreme case and that the guy could just as easily down a 26 of vodka on his break but the THC roadside test is not exactly perfected and 100% of the people I have ever known who smoke pot have had zero issues getting behind the wheel slightly after.

Well first I hope any parent would pick scenario 1 for their child, only problem is those scenarios have nothing to do with the legality of marijuana. I'm sorry you don't understand the issues but it should be pretty obvious that marijuana would be treated like alcohol. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is stopping either of your scenarios to happen right now. You are making it out as if no one gets high at work because it is illegal, that is laughable.

Just like you can't drink and drive, you won't be able to "puff" and drive.

Just like you can't drink in public, you will not be able to "puff" in public.

Just like you can't go to work drunk, you won't be able to go to work high.

How can you not see the difference here. 1 it's illegal and smoking pot standing beside his bus would get him fired and possibly jail time. This might actually make someone decide not to blaze up on their break as there is BAD repercussions. Scenario 2 there is no repercussion so the decision is simple, blaze and be awesome or not blaze and not be awesome.

You are mixing the issues. You are basically saying you can't sell alcohol legally because EVERYONE is going to drink and drive. Because alcohol is legal every school bus is being driven by a drunk. It's just not the case! You will always have people breaking the rules but that is going to happen if it's legal or not. You even say it yourself with your friends driving while high.

And guess what as long as it's illegal there will be no need for money to be spent on developing and perfecting a roadside test. Maybe use some of that marijuana tax money for development? Naw, wouldn't want to improve, let's just stand pat, because that has shown to be helpful to society up to now.

[Daradon]

We should start a poll on this one, I'm going to add a third option as some people seem to be in the middle on a few of the issues surrounding the basic question.

Should the laws regarding pot use be changed?

1. No, they should stay the same.
2. Decriminalized for use, but laws regarding growing and trafficking should remain the same.
3. Yes, it should be legalized.

I would vote for three. I'm not a smoker myself but I think the social and financial sense is too large to ignore. I do believe it will reduce some of the crime surrounding it (not all, and it will take a while, and depend on how the government wants to legislate growing and distribution), reduce the costs of hunting for it and prosecuting it, and could even be a revenue source for the government.

Marijuana is proven to be far safer than the legal drugs of smoking and alcohol, and many prescription drugs too. It doesn't makes sense that indulging in it is a crime.

As far as work and driving go, there may need to be some new laws, but as posters have said, a lot of jobs already do drug tests, and current laws don't really prevent people from driving while high anyway. I don't think there would be a huge, or even noticeable, increase in dangerous situations by legalizing marijuana.

[polak]

This conversation would be a lot less hostile if we all got baked fyi.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

No, we're well aware of them. We just think they're our mistakes to make, and as long as we aren't hurting other people, it's our right as free thinking, tax paying GROWN UP citizens to gets blazed and watch Phineas and Ferb.

Again, very naive and shortsighted. There would be lots of non-grownup, non-taxpaying citizens who would get blazed and do unknown things because they're unpredictable.

Hey, if it was just a matter of letting grownups get high and watch cartoons without all the paranoid delusions that a SWAT team was outside of their door, and hey, sometimes weed causes those paranoid delusions, I'm sure it would be fine. Its the unpredictable that causes concern.

Originally Posted by HOOT

So you believe all stereo types are correct 100% of the time?

I quoted this because of the Phineas and Ferb sterotype above.

Originally Posted by DementedReality

are you kidding ... buzz off with the personal attacks in threads I am not even posting in.

troll and reported.

It wasnt a personal attack, it was just a little topical humour. And I love the fact that in this thread you are the only one who understood my original point. All in all it gives me a warm feeling inside.

Report me all you like, you calling me a troll is absolutely unbelievable. You're right, you werent even in this thread, are you using the search function to see when you're talked about? That would explain a lot about the last few weeks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, all of that aside I entered a debate in the entirely wrong circumstances and my opinion has not been properly weighted. I do believe in the proper legalization of Marijuana very much along the lines of the proposal the Captain set up.

Whether I smoke or not is immaterial. I believe that the legalization of marijuana is important because we can use our neighbours to the south as an example. Their 'War on Drugs' was a resounding failure. They even admitted as such around a year ago.

Legalizing something along the lines of marijuana, in my opinion, would eliminate bad sources, dealers and many an undesirable element. Furthermore, and more importantly, it would reduce or eliminate the costs of incarceration of citizens for what are right now minor offences with major consequences.

Incarceration costs are twofold. The actual cost of holding and keeping someone in prison, but also the costs of removing that person's ability to contribute to society while in prison and severely hampering their future abilities. In addition to that there is the potential that as their earning potential is hampered they could potentially be forced or encouraged into leading a less socially beneficial life. All for what is effectively a very minor offence.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Locke

It wasnt a personal attack, it was just a little topical humour. And I love the fact that in this thread you are the only one who understood my original point. All in all it gives me a warm feeling inside.

Report me all you like, you calling me a troll is absolutely unbelievable. You're right, you werent even in this thread, are you using the search function to see when you're talked about? That would explain a lot about the last few weeks.
.

it was an unncessary comment intended to either make you look cool or funny to your online friends. hardee har.

either way, give it up. i was simply reading a thread of interest and found you taking a shot at me for no reason. did you feel better being the funny guy?

you (and others) are like a bunch of school yard bullies, look in the mirror sometime.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

it was an unncessary comment intended to either make you look cool or funny to your online friends. hardee har.

either way, give it up. i was simply reading a thread of interest and found you taking a shot at me for no reason. did you feel better being the funny guy?

you (and others) are like a bunch of school yard bullies, look in the mirror sometime.

He's playing it!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Scenario 1 pot is illegal:
Guy gets home after work and smokes a bowl plays some black ops, chows down on some KD and goes to bed. Gets up for work no hangover completely sober and has a productive day.

Scenario 2 pot is legal:
Guy buys a pack of Export A purple kush and decides to puff a few on his break. Break ends and hes a little blazed out, that's ok it's legal right, its not like he had a few beers or something. Steps onto the bus and welcomes the 23 kids he drives home with a smile............

Ya, I'll take scenario 1 for my kids.

I know that's an extreme case and that the guy could just as easily down a 26 of vodka on his break but the THC roadside test is not exactly perfected and 100% of the people I have ever known who smoke pot have had zero issues getting behind the wheel slightly after.

Let me ask you something. Booze is legal. Do you or anyone you know think it's okay to show up to work hammered? Think before you concoct extremely unlikely scenarios that cannot be prevented by simply criminalizing a plant.

[Hatter]

I think pot should be legalized. However, while it remains illegal, I don't have a problem with this legislation, as it clearly targets dealers and not the recreational smoker.

As the system currently stands, there is no control on the product making it easier to fall into the hands of children, and drives its use underground. When I was in high school, getting booze and cigarettes was much more difficult than pot.

Obviously the solution to those problems is legalization, but until there is real will for it, targetting dealers is probably the right move. I don't think the current system is very safe for the user.