Billionaire Oilers owner Katz gave $430,000 to Alberta PCs

[woob]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I like your crystal ball. I wish I could see into the future.
Got any good stock tips?

It doesn't work for WR supporters. Sorry!

[Azure]

Well if they split up the checks, I'm not seeing the issue here. Sure, a bit questionable, but he is from Edmonton and happens to own the Oilers.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

How about this couple?

Elmira Ibbotson 30,000.00 Cash
J. Gary Ibbotson 30,000.00 Cash

Originally Posted by First Lady

Could be husband/wife or sibling situation.

Where are the 10+ as in the Katz case?

Originally Posted by longsuffering

What's the difference?

Well the obvious answer to that would be that we assume the couple is married and therefore it it THEIR money in the first place. In the case of Katz it certainly appears that he just gave a bunch of people money to donate, it still came from his pocket but it made a short pit stop on the way. Is that illegal? no. Is it pretty obviously circumventing the donation limit? yes.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by woob

It doesn't work for WR supporters. Sorry!

Rerun isn't a WR supporter, he's a FL supporter.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Should it?
First of all, what was going on was totally legal.
Everyone knows what was going on, and no one in any sort of postion of authority is making a stink about it (Including Electsions Alberta), so it's obviously not illegal.

Secondly, I think putting it in as one cheque is preferable to keeping it secret and just having a dozen $30k cheques showing up. That to me would indicate someone is trying to hide a donation. Writing one cheque is about as transparent as things get. Katz is basicly explicitly stating that there is a loophole and he's using it to make a very large donation.
Everything is legal, honest, and transparent. How does that raise eyebrows, questions, or alarm bells?

It is not legal though, it would be in violation of section 34 which states that a political party cannot accept money that does not come from the contributor. If there is only one cheque and I say this came from these 10 people, that would be in violation of the Act.

The thing I find funny is that the leader of the party was unaware of such a large donation, the President of the party was unaware of such a large donation. I am wondering who was aware. Because when you are running out of money like the PC party was in the general election and you get an infusion of cash you would think someone above the status of mailboy would know about it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I like your crystal ball. I wish I could see into the future.
Got any good stock tips?

Good news! I have stock tips and also didn't vote Wildrose!!

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I like your crystal ball. I wish I could see into the future.
Got any good stock tips?

Invest in Rexall Drugs. I hear it's about to get whatever it wants from the Province.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by valo403

The only thing that's clear is that you're CLEARLY trying to drum up controversy and you are CLEARLY lying through your teeth about it.

No need to drum it up; this is all over the media and was the focus of question period in the Leg today.

I don't have an issue with your posting style, I have an issue with you playing yourself off as naive and playing us for stupid.

How is posting my understanding of elections laws naive? And no, quite the contrary, I believe the vast majority of posters are quite intelligent. Thus they can see every time I start a thread or post in a political one, its the usual gang who come along and try to discredit everything I say.

Originally Posted by Muta

This thread. There you go.

Seriously? I think my comments have been fair and balanced. I haven't accused Katz or the PC's of any wrong doing.

You've made it quite well known the last couple years that you're pro WRP,

No really Sherlock - - I ran as a candidate multiple times, was employed by them and previously on the Provincial board. So yeah, I'm partisan.

and yet have never admitted to being on a political agenda. Deflect, deflect, deflect. Rinse and repeat. The schtick is getting old.

When I was running as a candidate; absolutely I had an agenda - to win.

Now, I have no skin in this game. I've been just as critical of the party I support.

Starting a thread like this, specifically using the party acryonym PC in the thread title to negatively associate them with whatever it is Katz did as an individual, is the very definition of mudslinging. You're attempting to paint the PC party in a bad light through it; though you'll never admit to your agenda, that's for sure.... why start now, eh?

I didn't write the thread title; that is verbatim headline from the Globe and Mail.

As a change of pace, I'd like to hear you say something GOOD about the PC's. I can name several things. If you don't have an anti-PC agenda, prove it. If you don't want to, just admit you have one... like nik- said, it's okay to admit that you have one.

I've admitted and made no secret of being partisan.

I'm sure there are some good things they've done. I'd like to see your list.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by woob

It doesn't work for WR supporters. Sorry!

Does it work for your beloved PC party?

[woob]

The funny thing is the only reason this is even news is because of Katz recent battle with the City of Edmonton over the Arena and his remarks about the Oilers future in Edmonton. Somebody probably got their feathers ruffled and told someone to go find something to run to the media with. If the whole Katz/Oilers/New Arena deal wasn't all over the news, we wouldn't have even heard about this.

[GP_Matt]

I am pretty sure that if 1/4 of the money raised by the Wildrose came from one supporter it would also make the news.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Dion

Does it work for your beloved PC party?

Pssst..... (I even bolded the part you need to pay attention to)

Originally Posted by woob

I'm actually not an ardent PC supporter or apologist. I was just smart enough to know at election time that the WR running this province was a FAR worse thing to imagine than another 4 years of PC.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Mr Katz also donated money to the Wildrose. $7500, but money is money!

I also love the over-reacting on the first few pages especially by the OP who probably didn't even read her own link.

Are you reading my posts or someone else's? Please point to where I "over-reacted".

Here, I will make it easy for you. These are all my posts from the first 3 pages.

Originally Posted by First Lady

This is a fine example of walking a very thin line on the legal aspect.

The limit per person or corporation is $30,000.00. So one could "gift" 30K to each of their children and they in turn donate; or a Corp can pay dividends and employees donate in their own names.

Laws broken; no. Morally questionable; yes.

In the Katz case, as I understand it, it was one cheque.... which should raise eyebrows, questions and alarm bells.

Originally Posted by First Lady

You're sure? Which ones? I would certainly like to know.

Wildrose: http://efpublic.elections.ab.ca/afEF...fm?&ACID=10008

PC: http://efpublic.elections.ab.ca/afEF...fm?&ACID=10006

Originally Posted by First Lady

Someone on Twitter has pointed out that none of these donations show up on the list PC's released on April 22

http://www.votepc.ca/public/data/doc...l202012pdf.pdf

Donations can be accepted up to 2 months post election.

However, in my experience most large donors tend to do it before E-day so the receiver can get maximum use out of it.

Originally Posted by First Lady

Could be husband/wife or sibling situation.

Where are the 10+ as in the Katz case?

Originally Posted by First Lady

The Wildrose has a bookkeeper and accountant on staff; and auditors to consult with if need be. I would be incredibly surprised if the PC's finances are managed by volunteers.

Your point at the CA level is bang on.

Originally Posted by First Lady

The law states any single amount over $30,000.00 from any one person or contributor must be returned.

Receipts are issued on based on who gives the money. In this case it appears he sent in this cheque for $430,000.00 and then said "oh that's money from Tom, Dick and Harry". If in fact it wasn't from those people - then it is an illegal contribution.

As I said earlier, if he gifted the money to other people and they each indivdually gave - then technically that's not illegal.

Originally Posted by First Lady

Here is exactly what I said:

One cheque is what should have raised the questions.

Elections Alberta doesn't know if it came in one cheque or 10.

I think I've been pretty clear; it's only a problem if there was only one source for the funds and he asked for 10+ receipts to people to whom never had the money in their hands.

As I understand it Brian Mason has now asked Elections Alberta to conduct a full investigation.

Personally I think the bigger story is the huge decline in donations to the PC and the fact that they ran a deficit.

[Senator Clay Davis]

See thats what Wildrose, and really a lot of conservative supporters don't get: Just because we think your way is, well, terrible, its not because we're "liberals" or in this case "PC apologists". It's because we just think your way is terrible. You label us liberals and yet most of us are just liberals socially, which everyone should be anyways since more freedom is a good thing. But most of us are probably more fiscally conservative than the conservative governments you claim are the ones who are fiscal conservatives. Truly, there isn't really many that would count as a liberal in the context conservatives think of them as, namely peace loving hippies who love welfare and hate rich people. It's a myth.

[puckluck2]

How about the posts you thanked Firstlady?

You don't need to post for us to realize you have an agenda.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Iginla

How about the posts you thanked Firstlady?

Oh so ones where I nod my head and give them a thumbs up, I might as well of said it myself 'eh. Good to know.

You don't need to post for us to realize you have an agenda.

What agenda is that? To be critical of the opposition? I would be just as critical (maybe even more so) if this was a party I supported.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I am pretty sure that if 1/4 of the money raised by the Wildrose came from one supporter it would also make the news.

I'm sure it would as well. I'm also fairly certain you wouldn't have any problem with it.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

See thats what Wildrose, and really a lot of conservative supporters don't get: Just because we think your way is, well, terrible, its not because we're "liberals" or in this case "PC apologists". It's because we just think your way is terrible. You label us liberals and yet most of us are just liberals socially, which everyone should be anyways since more freedom is a good thing. But most of us are probably more fiscally conservative than the conservative governments you claim are the ones who are fiscal conservatives. Truly, there isn't really many that would count as a liberal in the context conservatives think of them as, namely peace loving hippies who love welfare and hate rich people. It's a myth.

That goes both ways. I am on the board of directors with the WRA and have been accused of some pretty terrible things by those with Liberal values.
To clarify, I don't hate women, gays or minorities. I support gay marriage and even polygamy if you are into that. I have no issue with the current abortion laws and will protest to keep religion out of schools and the government.
Yet, simply because I support the Wildrose I am accused of all of the above. At a formal event I was called a woman hating baby killer simply for stating that I am with the Wildrose.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm sure it would as well. I'm also fairly certain you wouldn't have any problem with it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the PC's doing it. Although I definitely think it should be a big deal to make sure that the action is known. If there is suddenly provincial money for a new arena or a revision to pharmacy laws that benefit Rexall then the public should be aware that he gave so much money to help get the party elected.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by woob

Pssst..... (I even bolded the part you need to pay attention to)

How can you say the WR was going to be a worse party when they haven't had a chance to govern?