U.S. Army Sergeant goes on a 16 person killing spree

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Sorry. I don't think the American soldier should have still been there to carry out this act, but that's as far as my caring reaches. If you still wish to live and organize your society like it's the 12th century but with guns, RPGs and heroin, certain consequences flow from that. If you stew in your own juice, and don't bother anyone else, great. However, if you poke the rest of the world and export some of your nastiness, I do not care about anything that happens to you after that. Things happen during war.

The funny thing is, other than the 12th century bit, your statement could easily be a Taliban extremist talking about the West. You are the same little minded type of person that they are...just one the other side of the planet.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

So what would the death toll be if the invasion had not occurred? How many would the Taliban have had stoned to death, blinded, had tongues cut out, had their hands chopped off or women told they could not go to school.

Its not like the place was a utopia to start with, people were being killed, raped and maimed in the name of allah all over that country. It happened before we got there and it will happen after we leave. It is the nature of the culture in that part of the world. We can and have spent billions trying to change it but short term progress doesn't look promising and the long term impacts cannot be determined.

America's issue is that it tries to hard to make people like it. China and Russia don't seem to care as much, maybe it is time for America to stop trying to fix things and look out for her own interests alone.

Let's put aside the hyperbole.

When you engage in a situation, it's your responsibility to act ethically. Therefore, your comments stemming from the "how many would have been killed" hypothetical are irrelevant in that they do not give you free license to act unethically or to show disregard for human life. The comments by some in this thread have simply reflected a disregard for human life, and I think that's abhorrent.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The funny thing is, other than the 12th century bit, your statement could easily be a Taliban extremist talking about the West. You are the same little minded type of person that they are...just one the other side of the planet.

Well... except that I am right. Look, in the end what bugs me about this is that it's a "horror" because the "evil" American did it. Meanwhile, the other side has killed/maimed thousands (?) of these same women and children for... going to school or not wearing a burlap sack. I don't see any threads from our lefty contingent about that. But some American goes nuts because of what he has to put up with, and it's an "outrage" and "Americans cause all the problems" (aside of the ones caused by the Jews that is). Yeah, it's too bad, but things happen in war, and the Americans do a whole lot more to avoid civilian casualties than anyone has up to now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

You don't have to know them or "care" for them to wish that they not be gunned down senselessly.


It's somewhat stunning how this thread has needed multiple posts reiterating basic respect for human life.

Obviously I don't want that. But I don't think we're really preventing the unnecessary killing of human life by being over there.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So we can't possibly care about people we've never met, but you can care about all of "our children" in the Canadian forces who you've never met? Or did you father all of the Canadian troops that are over there?

I would say that as a Canadian, there is an obvious difference between 'caring' for the people who serve in our Armed Forces, and caring for a sheepherder if Afghanistan that has absolutely no impact on my life.

Call me a heartless schmuck if you want, but I see absolutely no point in trying to impose our way of life on a people that are still stuck in 12th century ideals.

In the end, we're probably doing more harm than good.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Have been there. Have met them. The vast majority of the people that I met (admittedly a skewed representation though) were very grateful for the ISAF intervention and overthrow of the Taliban.

But that is all irrelevant. This is a tragedy where 16 innocent people, mostly women and children, were senselessly murdered. The only thing required to care about that is a just basic human decency.

That said, I suspect (well, hope) that we're all just being trolled in this thread (as other posters have already suggested.)

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of the people over there truly want our help. Maybe they appreciate us removing the Taliban, but if you've ever read some of the dispatches by Michael Yon, he often talks about how hard coalition troops have had to try JUST to sit down and talk with tribal leaders and try and get their support. And they had NOTHING to do with the Taliban.

Obviously I feel bad for the 16 people that were killed, but how many thousands have been killed before? How many thousands will be killed in the future? If the people TRULY want to be free, and TRULY want to move into the 21st century, they can do it without our help. It might be bloody, and people WILL probably die, but they can accomplish more on their own without us invading their country and spending billions trying to convince them to REALLY like us.

[tjinaz]

Let's put aside the hyperbole.

When you engage in a situation, it's your responsibility to act ethically. Therefore, your comments stemming from the "how many would have been killed" hypothetical are irrelevant in that they do not give you free license to act unethically or to show disregard for human life. The comments by some in this thread have simply reflected a disregard for human life, and I think that's abhorrent.

Because you cannot say 100% of all of your people will not snap and act in that fashion. If you look at the percentage of incidents versus operations it is very small. It is best to not get involved. I think they call this the Darfur syndrome. Where everyone sees wrong being done but won't do anything because it may damage their reputation. People's lives aren't worth the risk of loss of face or political quagmire. Isn't not taking an action an action itself? Where are the ethics there?

I will say that NATO and principally the US itself would not meet this standard as if the 9/11 attacks had not occured they would never have been there.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

No, that's not what I said. Other countries may do worse things to their citizens, but Israel may be the biggest bullies. I'm definitely not saying they are worse then anyone/everyone else. Only that they are also guilty.

You said that Israel is the biggest bully and I called you out for it. Saying something like that basically throws everything else you say in the trash can. They are definitely not worse than their neighbors or pretty much anyone in the region.

So are you saying that despite the fact that other countries neighboring Israel do worse things to their own citizens, Israel is a bigger bully? Care to back that up with anything?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Azure

Obviously I don't want that. But I don't think we're really preventing the unnecessary killing of human life by being over there.

'We' are expediting it. That's the entire freakin' point.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of the people over there truly want our help. Maybe they appreciate us removing the Taliban, but if you've ever read some of the dispatches by Michael Yon, he often talks about how hard coalition troops have had to try JUST to sit down and talk with tribal leaders and try and get their support. And they had NOTHING to do with the Taliban.

Obviously I feel bad for the 16 people that were killed, but how many thousands have been killed before? How many thousands will be killed in the future? If the people TRULY want to be free, and TRULY want to move into the 21st century, they can do it without our help. It might be bloody, and people WILL probably die, but they can accomplish more on their own without us invading their country and spending billions trying to convince them to REALLY like us.

I don't actually think they want the Taliban gone either, the Taliban, for all their faults, were about the most stable goverment Afghanistan had had in years, and the only one that wasn't utterly corrupt and inept.
We tend to assume that because the Taliban were/are a primitive bunch of 'tards they were/are the worst, where as in reality they are about the best of the bunch over there.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I don't actually think they want the Taliban gone either, the Taliban, for all their faults, were about the most stable goverment Afghanistan had had in years, and the only one that wasn't utterly corrupt and inept.
We tend to assume that because the Taliban were/are a primitive bunch of 'tards they were/are the worst, where as in reality they are about the best of the bunch over there.

What?
Are you talking about the same Taliban that were condemned internationally for their brutal repression of women,chopped off young men's penises in public for underaged/unmarried sex,chopped off the hands of 12 year old kids for stealing an apple because of hunger,scorched the farm lands of farmers who wouldn't pay them 50% of what their crops brought in. Terrorists,thugs and religious neanderthal idiots are what they really are.

No words can explain how stupid I think your post is,do yourself a favor and look up the history of Afghanistan before you post such drivel.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by T@T

What?
Are you talking about the same Taliban that were condemned internationally for their brutal repression of women,chopped off young men's penises in public for underaged/unmarried sex,chopped off the hands of 12 year old kids for stealing an apple because of hunger,scorched the farm lands of farmers who wouldn't pay them 50% of what their crops brought in. Terrorists,thugs and religious neanderthal idiots are what they really are.

No words can explain how stupid I think your post is,do yourself a favor and look up the history of Afghanistan before you post such drivel.

Yeah, IIRC the Afghan tribes rose up against the Taliban and with the aid of NATO forces and supplies, kicked them out. That was why it was originally so successful. To bad Bush didn't throw the whole kit and caboodle at them then instead of diversifying into Iraq. Now it's just degenerated into guerrilla war and that's a losers game. Time to get out.