Will Israel launch unilateral air strikes to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities?

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Because listening to him speak seriously makes me think he is mentally challenged.

Sentences like these are generally spat out by people who are not only ignorant, but completely blind to how the sentence itself makes them look ignorant in several manners.

[killer_carlson]

back to the original question - will israel launch unilateral attacks on iran - my thought would be a resounding "no".

They won't do it unilaterally and will get the support of the international community to intervene.

However, I do fully suspect that there will be a lot of "accidents" or "unexplained deaths" to key scientists, government leaders, and strategists of iran in the months ahead. ...

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

A interesting paper on the myths and truths about DU weapons

Its a good primer for both sides

http://www.wise-uranium.org/pdf/dumyths.pdf

Thanks again for that. I read the whole thing and learned a lot. I was expecting less from this guy after reading his background. He really did give an honest account.

The crux of it is this, a nuke will create an intense blast with a lot of immediate deaths from short high doses of intense radiation.

Nuclear events like Chernobyl, Fukushima and yes wars with depleted uranium involve much higher tonnage but much lower intensity with greater dilution of radio active elements. Very few immediate deaths. Longer term, higher rates of cancer with no consensus on exact percentages or numbers.

Certainly high doses of radiation will kill. Lower doses from non-ingested sources don't seem to be nearly as dangerous. The problem with depleted uranium and Chernobyl/Fukushima like events is that this material never goes away. Strontium, cesium and depleted uranium bioaccumulate. In animals, the results corellate strongly to increased cancer rates with low doses from internal emissions. Unfortunately human and child studies are well underway...

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

However, I do fully suspect that there will be a lot of "accidents" or "unexplained deaths" to key scientists, government leaders, and strategists of iran in the months ahead. ...

And these kinds of actions are somehow not unilateral acts of war?

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Here's some more "required" reading for you:

Johanna C. Badcock, Milan Dragović. Schizotypal personality in mature adults. Personality and Individual Differences, Vol 40(1) 2006, 701-708

Raine, Adrian;Reynolds, Chandra;Lencz, Todd;Scerbo, Angela; et al. Cognitive-perceptual, interpersonal, and disorganized features of schizotypal personality. Schizophrenia Bulletin, Vol 20(1), 1994, 191-201.

Raine, Adrian. Schizotypal and borderline features in psychopathic criminals. Personality and Individual Differences, Vol 13(1) 1992, 717-721

Thanks for the diagnosis. I agree that my claim that we are already nuking them with depleted uranium is not a typical, normal or conventionally held view. Odd, a little eccentric - you bet.

Would we be shrugging it off with a nothing to see here, move along now attitude if that amount of material was unleashed in any of our cities? I sure wouldn't want my children exposed to it.

I admit I do feel pretty depressed that kids in Iraq and their parents are inflicted with this toxic crap. For all you normal people on the forum who don't have any trouble sleeping - please don't feel guilty or bad. You are probably okay. My Schizotypal personality is the reason I am depressed. It has nothing to do with what is actually happening over there.

If I can just let go of these delusions and magical thinkings everything will be okay. Isn't the super bowl on this weekend? That should help get me back on the tracks!

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by freedogger

I didn't quote *her* I quoted the memo her site hosted from the original scientists on the Manhattan project. I could google several other sources for that memo if you care. The previous post of mine listed several scientific papers on it.

And you claim depleted uranium is a conspiracy? Where is the conspiracy? Nato uses depleted uranium in several types of armaments. They certainly don't deny it. Simple math is all that is needed to figure out how much has been dispersed. Are you saying I am a conspiracy loon because I don't think it is harmless.

Your only angle seems to be name calling.

Of course you quoted her. The only thing deriving from the actual physicists of the Manhattan Project was what was in italics. The rest is her work from that article that you cut and pasted, albeit in an interesting order. The only thing from you are the top handful of sentences.

The conspiracy theories are abundant concerning DU, but you can easily spot a few in your quoted post. The US controlling nations by means of DU contamination by genetically ruining native populations. DU contributing to indiscriminate killing and maiming around the world with no scientific data to demonstrate it. You'll find more reading further down Ms. Moret's article.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by freedogger

And these kinds of actions are somehow not unilateral acts of war?

no. They would be "accidents"

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by freedogger

Thanks for the diagnosis. I agree that my claim that we are already nuking them with depleted uranium is not a typical, normal or conventionally held view. Odd, a little eccentric - you bet.

Would we be shrugging it off with a nothing to see here, move along now attitude if that amount of material was unleashed in any of our cities? I sure wouldn't want my children exposed to it.

I admit I do feel pretty depressed that kids in Iraq and their parents are inflicted with this toxic crap. For all you normal people on the forum who don't have any trouble sleeping - please don't feel guilty or bad. You are probably okay. My Schizotypal personality is the reason I am depressed. It has nothing to do with what is actually happening over there.

If I can just let go of these delusions and magical thinkings everything will be okay. Isn't the super bowl on this weekend? That should help get me back on the tracks!

After reading the (high quality) report in Captain Crunch's post, it's clear:

1) Comparing depleted uranium to a nuclear bomb detonation is sensationalist garbage. They are unequivocal in effects and magnitude. It is a classic straw man argument.
2) People like you are to blame for propagating these myths/conspiracies.
3) Your pseudo-concern for the children is laughable; you best not look into how many more children die of starvation & malaria each day or else you'll be a suicidal insomniac.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by freedogger

And these kinds of actions are somehow not unilateral acts of war?

Sure, we could look at it that way. However, if we do then we also have to conclude that every state sponsored act of terrorism (which is the vast majority of terrorist acts) need to be considered unilateral acts of war. In which case, "these kinds of actions" that are being alluded to are not "unilateral acts of war" but rather counter-attacks in an ongoing war.

[Caged Great]

Just asking because I'm ignorant on this, but why do they use depleted Uranium, and what's it used for?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Just asking because I'm ignorant on this, but why do they use depleted Uranium, and what's it used for?

Because its a super dense metal, it can be used as penetraters and is an extremely effective weapon at defeating armor. Its a tank killing weapon.

In otherwords its used as a kinetic weapon, not an explosive weapon.

Some of the newer model M1A1's also use depleted Uranium in their armor covers which makes them near invulnerable to anything on the battlefield right now.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by freedogger

And these kinds of actions are somehow not unilateral acts of war?

No more than arming Hezbollah and Hamas. In the last Lebanon Israel war, they found Iranian soldiers fighting with Hezbollah. There's always a "cold" war between Israel and Iran. I don't expect Israel to stop with the assassinations, nor should they.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sure, we could look at it that way. However, if we do then we also have to conclude that every state sponsored act of terrorism (which is the vast majority of terrorist acts) need to be considered unilateral acts of war. In which case, "these kinds of actions" that are being alluded to are not "unilateral acts of war" but rather counter-attacks in an ongoing war.

Agreed. In this war, Iranian nuclear scientists better realize they are fair game. I'm not noticing a hell of a lot of international outrage about these assassinations, other than from the usual apologists.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Agreed. In this war, Iranian nuclear scientists better realize they are fair game. I'm not noticing a hell of a lot of international outrage about these assassinations, other than from the usual apologists.

Put me in the camp of people who think all human life is precious. In that regard, I haven't seen any evidence to show that these scientists that were assassinated were working on a nuclear weapons program. It was just announced as such, and people are simply repeating the claim.

Absent some meaningful evidence, this is just a senseless murder of another fellow human being. Iranian, Israeli, Canadian, whichever... it hurts me to see the tribalism and bloodlust that persist in our society.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Put me in the camp of people who think all human life is precious. In that regard, I haven't seen any evidence to show that these scientists that were assassinated were working on a nuclear weapons program. It was just announced as such, and people are simply repeating the claim.

Absent some meaningful evidence, this is just a senseless murder of another fellow human being. Iranian, Israeli, Canadian, whichever... it hurts me to see the tribalism and bloodlust that persist in our society.

A desperate theocracy that sits on one of the largest conventional oil resources in the world, refuses inspection of their "peaceful" nuclear program in the face of crippling sanctions,fights proxy wars through various terrorist organizations and repeatedly threatens to wipe the nation of Israel off the face of the earth....This,to me, sounds like they are already at war with Israel and working on a nuclear weapons program. Pardon me my tribal bloodlust, but in war there are always casaulties.
Now, if Iran would open up their nuclear facilities to international inspection, stop supporting their terrorist allies and stop threatening to wipe a country off the face of the earth, then the war would be over and I would join you in condemning these assassinations should they continue.

[FlamesAddiction]

Some people talk about Israeli politics like you either have to be for them or against them, but the issues are so complex. When it comes to Israeli/Palestinian issues, there are many grey areas. On some issues, I favour the Palestinians, and on a few I favour Israel. When it comes to Israel and Iran though, I favour Israel 100% of the time. It's completely separate from the Palestinian issue.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by blankall

No more than arming Hezbollah and Hamas. In the last Lebanon Israel war, they found Iranian soldiers fighting with Hezbollah. There's always a "cold" war between Israel and Iran. I don't expect Israel to stop with the assassinations, nor should they.

I think you mean "accidents"

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Agreed. In this war, Iranian nuclear scientists better realize they are fair game. I'm not noticing a hell of a lot of international outrage about these assassinations, other than from the usual apologists.

yep, I think you're right on point with this one.

I also suspect that it isn't just the Israeli's helping the accidents along either.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Agreed. In this war, Iranian nuclear scientists better realize they are fair game. I'm not noticing a hell of a lot of international outrage about these assassinations, other than from the usual apologists.

I'll take a few assassinations any day versus the 1 trillion a year for boots on the ground approach with many more thousands dead and generations so messed up with residual hate. I hate them both though.

On the other hand, reading about Stuxnet last year was the first time in a long time that made me proud to be part of the free world.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Because its a super dense metal, it can be used as penetraters and is an extremely effective weapon at defeating armor. Its a tank killing weapon.

In otherwords its used as a kinetic weapon, not an explosive weapon.

Some of the newer model M1A1's also use depleted Uranium in their armor covers which makes them near invulnerable to anything on the battlefield right now.

A buddy of mine who was in the first gulf war said it went through both the Iraqi and Chinese made tanks like nothing. He said inches of metal looked like they had had holes melted right through them.

Tungsten is just as effective except that you don't get the free offshore nuclear waste storage options that are available with the depleted uranium plan.