Sven "Fricken" Bartschi!

[Tinordi]

Have to temper his point totals by virtue of him playing on a very good team. He isn't like Seguin (not that anyone's comparing him to Seguin) who lit it up on a very bad team.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Karl

There's also Pavel Brendl with 73 goals & 134 points in his 1st year in The Dub with the Calgary Hitmen as a 17-18 year old, and all of 22 points in 78 career NHL contests.

Brendl had concerns about his defensive game (in junior he would wait for breakout passes even on the PK), his work ethic and his conditioning.

He certainly had a lot of finishing ability though, I watched him quite a bit. He was as natural of a goal scorer as I have seen in junior. But that isn't always enough to succeed in the pro game.

Sven doesn't have a lot of the same concerns about his game so they aren't very good comparables.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Have to temper his point totals by virtue of him playing on a very good team. He isn't like Seguin (not that anyone's comparing him to Seguin) who lit it up on a very bad team.

This. He plays with Pouliot, Morrow, and Rattie who are all (future in the case of Pouliot unless he completely chokes) talented 1st round picks. In particular, Rattie and Bartschi have some major chemistry (especially Rattie. He is about 1.6 ppg when with Bartschi, .9 when Bartschi was hurt). It's too bad the Flames didn't have the 32nd instead of two later 2nds.

[Ashasx]

They're all benefitting from playing with each other.

But who's benefitting the most? Sven by playing with those guys, or those guys by playing with Bartschi?

[Textcritic]

^
One more thing about the above comparables:

I am of the opinion that scouting and drafting has become much more effective and reliable in the past five or six years. Teams and scouts are much better informed, they have much higher levels of access to prospective players, they have better tools at their disposal in projecting how players will transition from juniour to the NHL, and there is generally a tonne more money, resources and energy committed to scouting, drafting, and development than there was even five years ago. In short, I believe that we will see first round picks emerge to be NHL stars at a considerably higher rate than in years past. There is a higher probability that Baertschi will be an impact NHLer than #12 overall picks from 1995–2005, by virtue of the massive improvements that have occurred in the practice of scouting and development.

[Weiser Wonder]

People questioning Bartschi's game weren't sure if he had a good or elite skill set. Most everyone thought he'd be an NHL regular though. None of those flawed players who put up a lot of points in Juniors are all that comparable because Bartschi's game is very well rounded. His point totals this year point to elite, which means the Flames might have a real gem.

He reminds me of Phaneuf's trajectory. Phaneuf was drafted to be a good all-around defenseman with some offensive upside, but proved he had an elite skill set the following year.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

They're all benefitting from playing with each other.

But who's benefitting the most? Sven by playing with those guys, or those guys by playing with Bartschi?

I know Bartschi and Rattie benefit from each other....I think Rattie benefits the most though. In a complete reversal from their skill set, Bartschi is being a playmaker and Rattie the scorer. That isn't to say Bartschi isn't getting his chances though...he's one of the grittier forwards in thier line up in my opinion. Despite his size, he seems to love to fight through hits and checks to get goals. He reminds me of Theo Fleury in that regard.

[united]

IIRC the holes in his game were supposed to be that despite his small size he lacked explosiveness in his first three strides, and that overly physical play from large defenceman caused him to become a perimeter player.

This season he has shown a huge improvement in both. I think the Flames got a steal.

[moon]

Originally Posted by fotze

To demonstrate how good Baertschi is playing, moon hasn't even said he sucks in this thread, and he has posted in it, so he could have.

I am waiting for the Crosby comparisons so when I go against the group it will really be contradictory and really be an attempt to stir up an argument (insert your favorite BS accusation that has been leveled at me for why I post here.)

Judging by the direction of the thread it looks like the Crosby comparisons will be coming sooner than later.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by united

IIRC the holes in his game were supposed to be that despite his small size he lacked explosiveness in his first three strides, and that overly physical play from large defenceman caused him to become a perimeter player.

This season he has shown a huge improvement in both. I think the Flames got a steal.

The issues I heard were:
- Doesn't actively hit (I never really saw this issue, but it was a common comment)
- Has no room to really grow
- Lacks a top end speed and has an average first three steps

I think they're all passable in their aspects at least. Bartschi will certainly be an NHL player and I think will develop into a 1st line player if it goes well. There's still the chance Feaster landed a home run though...and I'm hoping he did .

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by kirant

The issues I heard were:
- Doesn't actively hit (I never really saw this issue, but it was a common comment)
- Has no room to really grow
- Lacks a top end speed and has an average first three steps

I think they're all passable in their aspects at least. Bartschi will certainly be an NHL player and I think will develop into a 1st line player if it goes well. There's still the chance Feaster landed a home run though...and I'm hoping he did .

If you land a 1st line player with the 12th overall pick then that's a homerun.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by moon

...Judging by the direction of the thread it looks like the Crosby comparisons will be coming sooner than later.

What "direction" would that be? So far, all I see among the majority of responses are excited fans who anticipate that Baertschi will be a really good NHL player. I have seen hopeful uncertainty for his high end potential as an impact forward and a top-line player, and anticipations that he may turn out to be one of the better #10–15 picks in a long time.

Has anyone yet made a serious comparable with Crosby? Any suggestion that he is a generational talent, or that we should expect to see him develop into the best player on the planet? I challenge you to show me what I have missed after a careful read of this entire thread.

Your judgment is poor.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by moon

I am waiting for the Crosby comparisons so when I go against the group it will really be contradictory and really be an attempt to stir up an argument (insert your favorite BS accusation that has been leveled at me for why I post here.)

Judging by the direction of the thread it looks like the Crosby comparisons will be coming sooner than later.

Poor moon, so persecuted.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by kirant

This. He plays with Pouliot, Morrow, and Rattie who are all (future in the case of Pouliot unless he completely chokes) talented 1st round picks. In particular, Rattie and Bartschi have some major chemistry (especially Rattie. He is about 1.6 ppg when with Bartschi, .9 when Bartschi was hurt). It's too bad the Flames didn't have the 32nd instead of two later 2nds.

It's funny, when we talk about the Flame's former Leafs we always say they looked better because they were the best guys on a bad team. I think it cuts both ways. He may be benefiting from good teammates but he is still arguably the best player on a team of very good players.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I love Bartschi's game, but let's not call him a saviour until he does it at the NHL level. C'mon, we're starting to sound like Oiler fans with Schremp. Or Whaler fans with Domenichelli, or countless other players

Domnechelli - 148pts in 62 games for Kamloops in '95-'96
Schremp - 145 in 57 games for London in '05-'06
Peter Sarno - 130pts in 68 games for Sarnia in '98-'99
Corey Locke - 150pts in 66 games for Ottawa in '02-'02

The list goes on. To do it in the Dub is definately harder, and he looks VERY promising, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Junior success is a fairly good predictor of Major League success, but it ain't foolproof...

Only Schremp of that bunch was even drafted in the 1st round...

[moon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What "direction" would that be? So far, all I see among the majority of responses are excited fans who anticipate that Baertschi will be a really good NHL player. I have seen hopeful uncertainty for his high end potential as an impact forward and a top-line player, and anticipations that he may turn out to be one of the better #10–15 picks in a long time.

Has anyone yet made a serious comparable with Crosby? Any suggestion that he is a generational talent, or that we should expect to see him develop into the best player on the planet? I challenge you to show me what I have missed after a careful read of this entire thread.

Your judgment is poor.

It was a joke which is why I included the smilie face.

Although I thought with the ton of fotze post and mine that the joke should have been fairly evident without the use of the smilie face anyways.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by edslunch

It's funny, when we talk about the Flame's former Leafs we always say they looked better because they were the best guys on a bad team. I think it cuts both ways. He may be benefiting from good teammates but he is still arguably the best player on a team of very good players.

Oh no doubt. Sven Bartschi is the best of those at the moment (whether or not Pouliot pans out is pretty questionable right now). I think that his point total is a little inflated is all so to expect a player who's quality of a 1.5-2 PPG in the WHL...expect one along the lines of Backlund's initial appearance on the Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by kirant

...I think that his point total is a little inflated is all so to expect a player who's quality of a 1.5-2 PPG in the WHL...expect one along the lines of Backlund's initial appearance on the Flames.

So, are you suggesting that you expect Baertschi's potential to be comparable to Backlund's? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, and I think you need to elaborate. Furthermore, I am not clear on how you draw this comparable between a second-year WHL player and a player who played his whole juniour career in Tier-2 SEL, with only a brief stint in Canadian Juniour. Please elaborate.

At present, I am cautiously optimistic that Baertschi's ceiling is and always has been a lot higher than Backlund's. I really like Backlund, but he lacks the sorts of intangibles in his game that have many projecting Baertschi to be a star.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, are you suggesting that you expect Baertschi's potential to be comparable to Backlund's? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, and I think you need to elaborate. Furthermore, I am not clear on how you draw this comparable between a second-year WHL player and a player who played his whole juniour career in Tier-2 SEL, with only a brief stint in Canadian Juniour. Please elaborate.

At present, I am cautiously optimistic that Baertschi's ceiling is and always has been a lot higher than Backlund's. I really like Backlund, but he lacks the sorts of intangibles in his game that have many projecting Baertschi to be a star.

Agreed.

Baertschi and Backlund have totally different games from what I've seen. Backlund isn't nearly as giften offensively as Baertschi, but he has great defensive awareness. He is really looking like more of a 2nd line centre type player. I would put Backlund's max potential at Daymond Langkow type player.

Meanwhile Baertschi is pure first line scoring. Whether or not his game translates into the NHL is another thing, but Baertschi looks mokre like a ....well a player the Flames haven't had a in very long time.

[CGY12]

If its the first 3 steps that are Bartschi's biggest hurdle in becoming a NHL star then we are in real good shape. That is something that can be worked on, speed is the least of our worries. The kid has the vision and intelligence on the ice to be a real strong point producing NHL player, that is something you can't teach. It is all up to his work ethic to get the other parts of his game down and from what we've all seen thus far since he has been introduced to the organization and fans, he has that. Fans should be excited about him for sure but I think we should all temper our expectations till he cracks the club.