Driving under the legal limit? Doesn't matter, your vehicle is impounded anyway.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

This is what you are clearly not understanding. I am not sure I can put it a different way.

In your example, doing 90-109 in a 110 zone is not an offense- criminal, provincial or otherwise.

In the case of driving while having alcohol in your system, it IS an offence (just not a criminal code offence). You seem to think it's not.

So to use your example, say driving over 110 was a criminal offence. You drive over and get caught, you get a criminal charge. However if you are going between 90-109, the province has determined that you should not be on the road as your degree of impairment is certainly more then someone who has not had a drop.

Get it?

I get it fine, but thanks for that dumbed down post.

What you don't seem to get is the codification doesn't matter. Calling it criminal at point x and administrative at point y doesn't dismiss the fact that due process rights are being denied.

[MarchHare]

In the case of driving while having alcohol in your system, it IS an offence (just not a criminal code offence). You seem to think it's not.

Driving with alcohol in your system is only an offence if your BAC exceeds .08. Blowing .05 IS NOT an offence, even if this new law is enacted. Why, then, should the police be empowered to suspend your license and impound your vehicle when you haven't broken any law?

Originally Posted by valo403

I get it fine, but thanks for that dumbed down post.

What you don't seem to get is the codification doesn't matter. Calling it criminal at point x and administrative at point y doesn't dismiss the fact that due process rights are being denied.

So your suggestion would be? We clearly can't let some borderline impaired driver drive home can? Will you come pick him up? Drive his car home?

Make a suggestion... don't just cry some due process, civil liberties BS.

[Ne7en]

MADD really needs to reevaluate their priorities. People who re-offend, people with extreme B.A.C. levels instead of drivers in the .05-.08 range.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

So your suggestion would be? We clearly can't let some borderline impaired driver drive home can? Will you come pick him up? Drive his car home?

Make a suggestion... don't just cry some due process, civil liberties BS.

Here's a suggestion, read the thread. I've already posted what I'd like to see, twice actually.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

So your suggestion would be? We clearly can't let some borderline impaired driver drive home can? Will you come pick him up? Drive his car home?

Make a suggestion... don't just cry some due process, civil liberties BS.

Ok, let's say this legislation passes and .05 becomes the new quasi-limit. What if someone blows a .04 -- are we going to let him drive home because he's "borderline impaired"?

[Sylvanfan]

Put me down as not liking the grey area, where the Police at their discretion can make a judgement. I'd rather they set the limit to .05 and if you're over, you're subject to charges, if you're under you're okay.

This does tend to hurt the business of pubs and restaurants, especially in smaller places. There are people who don't live in downtown Calgary or 17th avenue and can walk to pubs and restaurants. When I lived in Sylvan Lake you could walk to the pubs, but if you went for a beer or two after work on a Friday in the winter, did you really want to walk home in -20 weather? And in terms of cabs...there were like 3 cabs in the entire town, you could wait an hour to get a cab.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Driving with alcohol in your system is only an offence if your BAC exceeds .08. Blowing .05 IS NOT an offence, even if this new law is enacted. Why, then, should the police be empowered to suspend your license and impound your vehicle when you haven't broken any law?

Oh man.

It IS an offence.... Provincial legislation...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=24+hour+suspens...fic+safety+act

Originally Posted by valo403

Here's a suggestion, read the thread. I've already posted what I'd like to see, twice actually.

Sorry.

It gets hard to read when the same points are raised over and over... and I guess I may be contributing to that... do me a favour.... post it again so I can bookmark it and return to it when I see you lobbying your MLA.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Sorry.

It gets hard to read when the same points are raised over and over... and I guess I may be contributing to that... do me a favour.... post it again so I can bookmark it and return to it when I see you lobbying your MLA.

My MLA? Seeing as I live in another country that probably won't be happening

I'd be all for a lowering of the limit to .06 with penalties being a little less harsh than they are now, .08 and you face penalties like the current ones, .10 a bit more, .12 a whole lot more etc. The problem i have is the removal of due process rights via the creation of a grey area.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Ok, let's say this legislation passes and .05 becomes the new quasi-limit. What if someone blows a .04 -- are we going to let him drive home because he's "borderline impaired"?

That's the thing, the ONLY real legal limit is 80mg% (although technically it's 100mg% but I don't want to confuse the matter). There is no other number. In addition you can still catch a criminal charge for blowing under 80mg%.

Anything below that has and will always be at the discretion of the cop- criminal charge, 24hr Provincial Suspension, or nothing.

Originally Posted by valo403

My MLA? Seeing as I live in another country that probably won't be happening

HAHA... WTF... why are you raising such a stink than...

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Oh man.

It IS an offence.... Provincial legislation...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=24+hour+suspens...fic+safety+act

Here's the Act. Please show me the section where having a BAC below .08 is an offence.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/t06.pdf

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Here's the Act. Please show me the section where having a BAC below .08 is an offence.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/t06.pdf

Try section 89.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

HAHA... WTF... why are you raising such a stink than...

Because I support a sound justice system.

Do you ask that question of people who advocate for judicial reforms in China? Obviously this isn't anywhere near to that extreme, but you don't have to live somewhere to be bothered by their laws.

[Ne7en]

Reducing the limit to .05 will only hurt the pubs and restaurants, as it begins to cause innocent people who have a beer while having dinner wonder if their vehicle will get impounded.

To me its either .08 or nothing at all. No grey area.

[MarchHare]

Here, I did your homework for you:

24-hour disqualification re alcohol or drug
89(1) If a peace officer reasonably suspects that the driver of a
motor vehicle has consumed alcohol or otherwise introduced into
the driver’s body any alcohol, drug or other substance in such a
quantity so as to affect the driver’s physical or mental ability, the
peace officer may require the driver to surrender the driver’s
operator’s licence to the peace officer.
(2) On being required by a peace officer to surrender the driver’s
operator’s licence under subsection (1), the driver
(a) is disqualified from driving a motor vehicle in Alberta,
and
(b) shall forthwith surrender the driver’s operator’s licence, if
the driver is the holder of an operator’s licence, to the
peace officer.
(3) The refusal or other failure of a driver to surrender an
operator’s licence under subsection (2) does not prevent the
disqualification from driving from taking effect.
(4) A disqualification from driving arising pursuant to this section
terminates at the end of 24 hours from the time that the
disqualification came into effect.
(5) Notwithstanding subsection (4), if the disqualification from
driving arises in respect of the use of alcohol and the driver
voluntarily,
(a) at a place designated by the peace officer, undergoes a test
the purpose of which is to show the proportion of alcohol
in the driver’s blood, and the result of that test indicates
that the proportion of alcohol in the driver’s blood does
not exceed 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of
blood, or
(b) produces to the peace officer a certificate signed by a
physician stating that the driver’s blood, as tested by the
physician after the commencement of the disqualification
from driving, did not contain more than 80 milligrams of
alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood,
the peace officer shall forthwith return the operator’s licence, if
any, to the driver and the disqualification from driving is
terminated.

Section (5) is the important one here. It states that if your BAC is determined to be below .08, the officer must return your license and any temporary suspension is immediately lifted. So, as I said above, being below .08 IS NOT an offence.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Try section 89.

I did, see my post above. You're wrong.

Originally Posted by valo403

Because I support a sound justice system.

Do you ask that question of people who advocate for judicial reforms in China? Obviously this isn't anywhere near to that extreme, but you don't have to live somewhere to be bothered by their laws.

Yes, I challenge all advocates of reform in China... how can 2 billion people and an economic powerhouse be wrong? ....

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Here, I did your homework for you:



Section (5) is the important one here. It states that if your BAC is determined to be below .08, the officer must return your license and any temporary suspension is immediately lifted. So, as I said above, being below .08 IS NOT an offence.

Fair enough... I stand corrected... technically, under80mg% is NOT an offence.

I would suggest that does not happen in practice however.