Many saintly drivers in this thread. Practically no automobile I ever see on the road comes to a full stop at a 4 way or any other stop sign if it isn't busy. Yet bicyclists need to be held to a higher standard? Because we're not in a 2000lbs machine that can easily kill or maim people?
Many saintly drivers in this thread. Practically no automobile I ever see on the road comes to a full stop at a 4 way or any other stop sign if it isn't busy. Yet bicyclists need to be held to a higher standard? Because we're not in a 2000lbs machine that can easily kill or maim people?
No, bicyclists don't need to be held to a higher standard. Cyclists and drivers need to be held to the same standard: obey the rules of the road.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MarchHare For This Useful Post:
Many saintly drivers in this thread. Practically no automobile I ever see on the road comes to a full stop at a 4 way or any other stop sign if it isn't busy. Yet bicyclists need to be held to a higher standard? Because we're not in a 2000lbs machine that can easily kill or maim people?
Yup, the majority of cars do not come to complete stops at stop signs, in my experience. Of those who do stop, 75% come to a stop well past the stop line, usually halfway through the crosswalk, which is every bit as dangerous.
The percentage of vehicles that make a legal stop behind the stop line at stop signs is likely at 10% or less.
I really hate cyclists who only choose to obey traffic laws when it's convenient to them. They're absolutely right that they should be treated like any other vehicle on the road, which means they don't get to use crosswalks, have to stop at stop signs, yield to pedestrians, and stay off the sidewalks.
ever since I've had people purposefully try to hit me, i.e. running stop signs to hit me when I have the right of way, I could care less what people think about how I ride my bike. I ride to survive from the psychopath drivers.
Ok great. So why don't we first focus our attention first on the people in the 2000lbs machines and get them to stop at stop signs?
Since when is it an either/or proposition?
This is a thread about bicyclists. If you want to harp on bad drivers who don't follow the rules of the road, start another thread. I'm sure 4x4 and Redvan will have many exciting stories to share.
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
I'm for the idea of giving bikes different laws. Let them have the right of way at 4 way stops; treat stops as yields; allow them to ride on the sidewalk at very low speeds; use crosswalks while mounted; and cut around stopped traffic.
Then ban all bikes on any major thoroughfares other than on marked bike lanes - of which there will be very few.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
I hate cyclists when I'm in my car. I hate cars when I'm on my bike. I think that speaks pretty strongly to our lack of cycling infrastructure. I can't wait for the new bike lanes to be rolled out.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Bumface For This Useful Post:
As a challenge for the people in this thread, why doesn't everyone for one week stop at all red lights and stop signs? Make it a complete stop as per traffic laws. This goes for cyclists and/or drivers. See if it really inconveniences you, or if there is little difference. If there is little difference, why not continue to do it and try and get your friends to do it?
People at my office used to grumble when we'd walk somewhere to go for lunch and I refused to jaywalk or cross on a don't walk sign. One girl got clipped one day by a car and broke her arm while jaywalking. Now we leave a couple minutes earlier and no one gets hurt. I don't see how this is such a big deal to obey a law.
__________________
My thanks equals mod team endorsement of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Jesus this site these days
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnet Flame
He just seemed like a very nice person. I loved Squiggy.
What is weird is that every cyclist here admits to following all the laws and all that jazz (except Tinordi, he's being honest), yet we have never seen any of these unicorns in real life.
For the record I like cyclists and don't mind in the least if they cut ahead or blow through stop signs. I know it will happen and when you accept it, it is much more efficient that way. Waiting to see if the biker stops at the stop sign is much slower than them just blowing through and then i can go.
Add me to the camp of the cyclist you all hate. Yep, I run stop signs, ride on the sidewalk when convenient, ride too fast on the pathway system, and OMG!! oh noes! don't wear a helmet when I am on my commuter bike!
I will start obeying all of these rules when:
- Motorists stop driving in the bike lanes. I have seen them going the wrong way in them at that.
- ######s on the pathway system quit holding me up by walking 4 across blocking both directions.
- This city fixes the potholes and sweeps the gravel in the shoulders of DEDICATED bicycle routes, when it is f'ng August already. Road bike wheels are mucho $$$$
- When the city drops the completely useless path speed limit that nobody obeys anyway.
- When there is a epidemic of motorists, being killed by cyclists.
Riding effectively in this city is a game of survival of the fittest unfortunately if you want to commute by bike. I commute about 20kms each way at least 3 days a week. If I follow the city "tourist" bike path route, it is 28 kms from where I live and takes an hour. If I go commando cyclist, and just go straight through the main routes, it is 18 KMS, and about 35 minutes. Unfortunately, that route involves non bike friendly routes, where there should be some. This cities cycling strategy was designed/implemented by someone who has never ridden a bike IMHO.
For those barking about the stop sign thing... you have probably never ridden with clipless pedals. I will slow down, but, if there is clearly nobody in the intersection, or coming either way, I am not going to kill my momentum, clip out, gear down, stop, look both ways at nothing, clip in, and re-run through the gears. Part of being an efficient cyclist, is conservation of momentum/energy, and sometimes you have to cheat a little, to stay efficient. I know pushing your brake, and gas pedal, is completely the exact same thing in your eyes, but as a drivers as well, I can assure you, it is not. Getting up to, and maintaining 40 KMH on a road bike takes a little work, unless your name ends with Landis or Armstrong.
And the helmet thing is lame. On the road bike yes,I will. One some hills I am hitting 70-80 KPH. But to expect leisure riders, out to enjoy a nice day on a ballooned tired cruiser that tops out at 20 to wear once is just another example of our pussified bubble wrap society. Euro cities do not have this requirement, and they don't have hundreds of deaths a year as a result. This is a huge component in the success of their bike share programs. If you expect people to wear helmets on big, heavy, slow old-timey bikes, then you might as well say helmets are required 24/7 for anything faster than walking. And I am sure a few of you guys that grew up with helicopter parents, and had to wear helmets on your tricycles think walking helmets would be a good idea.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pylon For This Useful Post:
Location: In my office, at the Ministry of Awesome!
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkrogan
I hate cyclists when I'm in my car. I hate cars when I'm on my bike. I think that speaks pretty strongly to our lack of cycling infrastructure. I can't wait for the new bike lanes to be rolled out.
I agree 100%.
Like I said, I'm pretty new to cycling, but I've always hated the guys who pick and choose the rules they're going to follow. I've always said "Either you're in traffic or you're not" if you are then I'll give you room and leave you alone. So when I started riding I tried my damnedest to live by that, and for the overwhelming majority of my rides that's what I do. (sure when no one is around I'll zip through a stop sign, but when I'm in traffic, I act like any other vehicle, I stop at reds, and I usually don't go to the front of a line at a red unless there is room in the curb side lane). But guess what, despite my best efforts to obey the rules, I have yet to go for a ride of any reasonable lenght without damn near getting side swiped by some dude who doesn't feel like giving me any more room than absolutely necessary to avoid scratching his paint.
Cyclists are in a vulnerable position, and drivers who don't treat cyclists properly are probalby way more dangerous than cyclists who don't follow the rules either.
__________________
THE SHANTZ WILL RISE AGAIN. <-----Check the Badge bitches. You want some Awesome, you come to me!
Ok great. So why don't we first focus our attention on the people in the 2000lbs machines and get them to stop at stop signs?
Why? We can't focus our attention on all vehicles, including bicycles, following the rules of the road? Why must one group act in a certain manner before we concern ourselves with the other?
Real awesomeness (or stupidity?) starts at around 1:15.
I work with a guy who competes in those, he's probably in that video. The most boring straight laced guy you'll ever meet by day and then signs up for one of those every weekend. His ex sure messed with his head.
As a challenge for the people in this thread, why doesn't everyone for one week stop at all red lights and stop signs? Make it a complete stop as per traffic laws. This goes for cyclists and/or drivers. See if it really inconveniences you, or if there is little difference. If there is little difference, why not continue to do it and try and get your friends to do it?
People at my office used to grumble when we'd walk somewhere to go for lunch and I refused to jaywalk or cross on a don't walk sign. One girl got clipped one day by a car and broke her arm while jaywalking. Now we leave a couple minutes earlier and no one gets hurt. I don't see how this is such a big deal to obey a law.
Why not just look both ways before crossing the street regardless of what the "signs" tell you is safe?
Add me to the camp of the cyclist you all hate. Yep, I run stop signs, ride on the sidewalk when convenient, ride too fast on the pathway system, and OMG!! oh noes! don't wear a helmet when I am on my commuter bike!
I will start obeying all of these rules when:
- Motorists stop driving in the bike lanes. I have seen them going the wrong way in them at that.
- ######s on the pathway system quit holding me up by walking 4 across blocking both directions.
- This city fixes the potholes and sweeps the gravel in the shoulders of DEDICATED bicycle routes, when it is f'ng August already. Road bike wheels are mucho $$$$
- When the city drops the completely useless path speed limit that nobody obeys anyway.
- When there is a epidemic of motorists, being killed by cyclists.
Riding effectively in this city is a game of survival of the fittest unfortunately if you want to commute by bike. I commute about 20kms each way at least 3 days a week. If I follow the city "tourist" bike path route, it is 28 kms from where I live and takes an hour. If I go commando cyclist, and just go straight through the main routes, it is 18 KMS, and about 35 minutes. Unfortunately, that route involves non bike friendly routes, where there should be some. This cities cycling strategy was designed/implemented by someone who has never ridden a bike IMHO.
For those barking about the stop sign thing... you have probably never ridden with clipless pedals. I will slow down, but, if there is clearly nobody in the intersection, or coming either way, I am not going to kill my momentum, clip out, gear down, stop, look both ways at nothing, clip in, and re-run through the gears. Part of being an efficient cyclist, is conservation of momentum/energy, and sometimes you have to cheat a little, to stay efficient. I know pushing your brake, and gas pedal, is completely the exact same thing in your eyes, but as a drivers as well, I can assure you, it is not. Getting up to, and maintaining 40 KMH on a road bike takes a little work, unless your name ends with Landis or Armstrong.
And the helmet thing is lame. On the road bike yes,I will. One some hills I am hitting 70-80 KPH. But to expect leisure riders, out to enjoy a nice day on a ballooned tired cruiser that tops out at 20 to wear once is just another example of our pussified bubble wrap society. Euro cities do not have this requirement, and they don't have hundreds of deaths a year as a result. This is a huge component in the success of their bike share programs. If you expect people to wear helmets on big, heavy, slow old-timey bikes, then you might as well say helmets are required 24/7 for anything faster than walking. And I am sure a few of you guys that grew up with helicopter parents, and had to wear helmets on your tricycles think walking helmets would be a good idea.
You're the problem. Ignorant, arrogant and entitled cyclist who believes that their challenges are paramount and greater than the challenges of anyone else who is doing the exact same thing.
'I have to get to work and I have to do it fast, I have to do it my way and I have to do it as efficiently as I can with this bike and clips and gears and whatever else that I've got and everyone in my way can go straight to hell despite the fact that they are also just doing their best to get to work....'
I quite honestly dont give a rat's ass how long it takes you to slow down on your super speed bike. I have a 450 horsepower Mustang that I drive around in, yet I've never gotten a ticket, it slows down just fine, stops just fine and speeds up just the same, if you're having issues with that with your bike and its clips and gears and whatever then its time to trade it in for something simpler to operate or simply more efficient.
How difficult it is for you to maintain 40KM/hr is none of my concern. If its such a chore with your bike that you cant actually use it to the standards required on the road then maybe you need something different.
I like the entitlement though, you'll slow down and obey the laws once the 'stupid City' and every 'psycho motorist' and every 'inconsiderate pedestrian' kowtow to your terrorist demands.
That is pure BS.
By the way, if you're reading your own post from my point of view, you'd appreciate the particulary funny irony of someone unreasonable demanding reason from others.
You want survival of the fittest, how about 3000 pounds of steel against your soft, squishy insides? Who is going to win that battle of the 'fittest' commuters? Thats why there will be no 'epidemic' of motorists being killed by cyclists. Thats why there has to be cooperation and understanding. Not ignorance.
You sound like you are actually the very definition of the problem that exists between cyclists and motorists and the exact reason why it cant be fixed, because cyclists have their laundry of list of demands and refuse to change until they've been met. As long as that continues there will continue to be more cyclist injuries and fatalities.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
The Following 29 Users Say Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
I work with a guy who competes in those, he's probably in that video. The most boring straight laced guy you'll ever meet by day and then signs up for one of those every weekend. His ex sure messed with his head.
Tell your friend that if he's in that video, I think he's an a$$hole.
I know those guys think their Kevin Bacon in Quicksilver but they could have seriously hurt a pedestrian. If those guys blew by me like that while I was crossing a street and I had my kids with me - I'd be pissed. I could see a foot coming out and kicking a back wheel pretty easily.
<-----Check the Badge bitches. You want some Awesome, you come to me!
