The one intersection I'm trying to wrap my head around is going onto Northbound Crowchild from Westbound 24th Ave NW. Before there was an admittedly short merge, but now they've replaced that with two merge lanes and a traffic light. I get that it helps to avoid backups as people struggle with the merge during rush hour, but in less busy times people are waiting to merge onto Crowchild for no reason while they wait for the light to change.
Some context for this one as didnt see anymore on it. The added NB through lane at the lights (that now continues to and drops off at 32nd) took the space the merge lane used, with some minor widening. Obviously cant do a yield there so lights were needed. And then maxing capacity with two lanes at least.
Worth noting the wall across from mcmahon just north of 16th is being built to create a proper WB 16th to NB Crow on ramp. Should draw a lot of the traffic off of 24th when trying to go NB Crow.
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You don't see many road designers in online conversations because it's incredibly tiring to debate with people who have driven long enough to feel they know how road design works better than most. The amount of time and effort it would take to explain and counter arguments about all the details behind a decision is enough that I don't think many want to try. I've deleted my fair share of draft posts because they were just getting too long and detailed to bother.
There's also the fact that most transportation projects these days have a pretty tight line of communications that they want maintained, so publicly posting about projects outside of that could be troublesome for that person's employer or client. I've been identified by the projects I posted online about before, so I'm pretty cautious about what I talk about online now.
I'm glad Acey has been so passionate about this topic because as far as I can tell, he isn't attached to any particular project or client. He doesn't have to worry about those things. I WANT more people to be explaining the nuances of road design, to help people understand why decisions are made. I don't like that the transportation industry is afraid to talk because of the chance of angering a client, or even additional liability. I don't like that certain municipalities are afraid to share safety reviews of their roads because it opens them up to lawsuits. We should be more transparent about this stuff.
Road Building is like music. People think they are experts, because the consume a lot of it.
Just because it “feels” good, doesn’t mean that it is good. Free flow/cloverleafs may feel good, but don’t handle traffic well. The best road design isn’t always intuitive to someone who’s not an expert.
Looks like traffic will be driving on the new 19 St NE bridge over Airport Trail in the next couple weeks so they can finish up the interchange. No better time for passenger traffic to tank 95% at the airport than when they're building 2 interchanges right in front of the airport.
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Originally Posted by Ducay
All I know is the road designers who concocted the 69th St & Stoney Trail interchange need to be banned from the industry and the internet so they can share their knowledge with no other human beings.
It's an extremely generic interchange design that has been used many times and will continue to be used in the future. In fact, Discovery/69 is identical to the following ring road interchanges:
Henday/111 St
Stoney/52 St
Both have heavier traffic than Discovery/69 and neither are near failure.
Looks like traffic will be driving on the new 19 St NE bridge over Airport Trail in the next couple weeks so they can finish up the interchange. No better time for passenger traffic to tank 95% at the airport than when they're building 2 interchanges right in front of the airport.
Acey, I'm not sure which way to take this comment but in hindsight this might turn out to have been a great time to build. Do it when traffic is depressed and open in time for it to recover. The timing could work out very nicely.
Memorial and Deerfoot is one of the worst interchanges ever built. I’m surprised there’s not more accidents there.
EB to NB traffic having no barrier to restrict last second mergers from the through lanes is such a hazard, and I'm surprised that more collisions don't occur from it.
The interchange as a whole is a mess. The Deerfoot study does have a solution to fix it, but it isn't intended to be done until 20 years from now since it's one of the final phase builds in the plan.
Looks like traffic will be driving on the new 19 St NE bridge over Airport Trail in the next couple weeks so they can finish up the interchange. No better time for passenger traffic to tank 95% at the airport than when they're building 2 interchanges right in front of the airport.
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Yeah, 19th over Airport Trail looks like it could be ready to open to traffic soon.
Barlow is further behind.
Those two interchanges are definitely not “needed” at this time, but the Tunnel agreement required them before fully opening Metis Trail.
Also, the federal government is paying for most of the cost of those interchanges.
With Airport Trail now fully open, and those interchanges making it more free flow, that route is almost certainly going to become my main route to get out of the city heading North, and also for any travel to the north central area.
I feel like Airport Trail is still only as strong as its weakest link, that being the left turn from westbound onto southbound Deerfoot. Might be a while before we have money to upgrade it.
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I feel like Airport Trail is still only as strong as its weakest link, that being the left turn from westbound onto southbound Deerfoot. Might be a while before we have money to upgrade it.
Speaking of Left turn flyovers - when do we get one on Glenmore Eastbound to Stoney Northbound in the SE?
What about intersections such as 16th Ave/Deerfoot, Memorial/Deerfoot, Sarcee/Richard Road? I'm assuming those were built to put a through road in the middle yet their at least 20 years old and I haven't heard of any plans to eventually do so.
What about intersections such as 16th Ave/Deerfoot, Memorial/Deerfoot, Sarcee/Richard Road? I'm assuming those were built to put a through road in the middle yet their at least 20 years old and I haven't heard of any plans to eventually do so.
Assuming you mean Sarcee/Richmond, yes that's what the wide median is for and interchange plans are done but they widened Sarcee to 6 lanes hoping that it will be enough until west leg of Stoney is done. They'll reassess in 2025.
Deerfoot/16 Ave was not built specifically for that improvement to be made, but it is the most logical. It will likely be improved in the future as part of a big project unifying it with 19 Ave and Barlow into one connected complex. We just have no money.
Memorial/Deerfoot was not built for expansion, it will get some minor improvements when major Deerfoot work begins next fall. Rough plans are drawn for a complete rebuild making Deerfoot/Memorial, Barlow/Memorial, and Deerfoot 17/Ave into one interconnected complex, but again no money.
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No roads discussion is complete without mentioning the cluster#### that is Blackfoot/17th. As a pedestrian, the Blackfoot intersection is counter intuitive. As a driver, people have no idea how to handle that intersection because it’s so stupid. Right up the hill to forest lawn, all that work and it’s done nothing but impede traffic flow. Northbound access is still brutal, the lights for the MP line are four times longer than needed, the signage for right turns is different along this route than down the road. Just the silliest, most bizarre roadworks I’ve seen.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
No roads discussion is complete without mentioning the cluster#### that is Blackfoot/17th. As a pedestrian, the Blackfoot intersection is counter intuitive. As a driver, people have no idea how to handle that intersection because it’s so stupid. Right up the hill to forest lawn, all that work and it’s done nothing but impede traffic flow. Northbound access is still brutal, the lights for the MP line are four times longer than needed, the signage for right turns is different along this route than down the road. Just the silliest, most bizarre roadworks I’ve seen.
I like the part that has the "don't be an #######" sign. Lol
Talked to a friend who may end up doing some design work for the Deerfoot improvements. He says fixing everything wrong with Deerfoot would be about $3 billion. The entire Henday ring road, 80 km of mostly greenfield freeway, was $4.5 billion. Looks like the work that starts next year will be about $400 million. Edmonton's massive ongoing Yellowhead Trail freeway conversion project is about $1 billion.
It's just a bunch of numbers, but the bottom line is that Deerfoot sucks really bad.
Everyone will be getting a little bit of help but the money is heavily skewed to the south, mostly for twinning Ivor Strong and other bridges at Southland, Bow Bottom and Glenmore. Money is like 85% for the south.
I watched this yesterday and ... I'd be totally okay if we started looking at ways to modify existing developments and things to fit what Netherlands has done.
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GO FLAMES GO.
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