The Tariff Thread

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I was going to say; don't we basically just not import American dairy products at all? In part because US cheese etc doesn't necessarily meet Canadian food regulatory standards, is my understanding.

It does not. American cheese only needs to be 51% cheese. I got no idea what the other 49 is, but it's no good.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

It does not. American cheese only needs to be 51% cheese. I got no idea what the other 49 is, but it's no good.

American, obviously.

[Slava]

I guess these tariffs (steel and aluminum) don’t actually come in until March 4. I haven’t checked the betting markets, but what are the odds he flip-flops before them?

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Slava

I guess these tariffs (steel and aluminum) don’t actually come in until March 4. I haven’t checked the betting markets, but what are the odds he flip-flops before them?

He’ll likely backtrack as soon as American business leaders start making a big fuss, which should be shortly after the rest of the world announces their retaliatory tariffs. Same as last time.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

Pretty sure we put a 400% tariff on American cheese to protect our dairy industry and make sure Canadians pay more than anyone else for cheese.

How does that compare to the subsidy the American dairy producer gets for their product?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Slava

I guess these tariffs (steel and aluminum) don’t actually come in until March 4. I haven’t checked the betting markets, but what are the odds he flip-flops before them?

Hard to Stay, last time they stuck for almost a year, but there are pretty credible reports that last time it cost the US ~75,000 jobs because they couldn't supply their own factories, and I think the employers of those jobs will mount a more coordinated and forceful resistance to the tariffs this time, and those are American medium sized business owners, the people who Trump wants to listen to.

[Goriders]

Isn’t his problem the Quebec dairy cartel?

Seems like he’s going after all of the sacred cows.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by #-3

Hard to Stay, last time they stuck for almost a year, but there are pretty credible reports that last time it cost the US ~75,000 jobs because they couldn't supply their own factories, and I think the employers of those jobs will mount a more coordinated and forceful resistance to the tariffs this time, and those are American medium sized business owners, the people who Trump wants to listen to.

Not sure who’s winning in the tariff war. Seems like everyone loses.

[FlamesAddiction]

If Canada can get it's poop in a scoop, it might end up being a good thing in the long run even if painful in the interim. We desperately need to diversify, become more self-reliant, and get our goods to more markets.

There is also an opportunity here if we have a bunch of surplus steel and aluminum, to push ahead with large infrastructure work that requires those materials and creates jobs.

If or when a U.S. regime change happens and the U.S. wants to talk about free trade again, it could put us in a much better bargaining position. With Trudeau in Brussels this week to meet with the EU, my hope is that he drums up interest for EU investment in Canada to help get some of that stuff done.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I work in the Steel business. Looks like I get to die in the unemployment tariff firing squad first. Awesome.

Oil and gas will be right behind you.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Canada can get it's poop in a scoop, it might end up being a good thing in the long run even if painful in the interim. We desperately need to diversify, become more self-reliant, and get our goods to more markets.

There is also an opportunity here if we have a bunch of surplus steel and aluminum, to push ahead with large infrastructure work that requires those materials and creates jobs.

If or when a U.S. regime change happens and the U.S. wants to talk about free trade again, it could put us in a much better bargaining position. With Trudeau in Brussels this week to meet with the EU, my hope is that he drums up interest for EU investment in Canada to help get some of that stuff done.

I agree with you that the silver lining in this train wreck is it’ll force Canada to function like an actual country. Not a collection of feifdoms stabbing each other in the back.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I agree with you that the silver lining in this train wreck is it’ll force Canada to function like an actual country. Not a collection of feifdoms stabbing each other in the back.

First step would be to get Quebec to join Canada!

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

First step would be to get Quebec to join Canada!

Think the only way that will ever happen is by cutting off their gravy train and reducing the number of seats they have in parliament. Or at least tie their financial incentives to their participation as a partner.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I was going to say; don't we basically just not import American dairy products at all? In part because US cheese etc doesn't necessarily meet Canadian food regulatory standards, is my understanding.

Well that can't be true because its very possible to bring American cheese across the border without paying the duties provided you are in the US long enough.

We tariff American cheese to protect our dairy industry.

Not sure where you got the idea from that its because of food standards. The neat thing about Canadian food standards is if we would open up our market to the American dairy industry, we could just get them to abide by our regulations. Such as no growth hormone allowed. But then again, why not let the consumer choose? The tariff on American products is basically just a tax that increases prices for Canadians and protects the dairy cartel in Canada.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

On the one hand, you argue(some might say strongly) for Canadian industry and taking care of ourselves, and on the other you can't wait to throw our own industry under the bus so you can have cheaper cheese. How do you square that?

The supply management system is a cartel. It has nothing to do with protecting Canadian industry. Allowing other countries to import dairy products in Canada would lower prices for all Canadians. Our dairy regulations have nothing to do with supply management, but the dairy industry sure duped you and most other Canadians to believe that.

Which BTW is the reverse argument that we now have with the Trump tariffs, which everyone on here seems to agree with. Aluminum & steel producers in the states are just going to raise their prices to basically be at the same level as what Canadian steel & aluminum costs after the tariff is applied. Funny how the 'free market' works. Even you should understand that.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

How does that compare to the subsidy the American dairy producer gets for their product?

Does that matter?

And I'm not saying we should lower the tariff on American cheese. The tariff applies to every country as far as I understand because its designed to protect our very corrupt and very powerful dairy industry.

We could theoretically maintain our regulations around dairy products, and lower tariffs. This would prevent importers from flooding the market with the so called 'unhealthy' stuff.

But then again, why not let the consumer choose? We have our food standards, yes, but the tariffs are just driving up prices for all Canadians, and the only people winning are the dairy cartels.

Which I suppose is the Canadian way!

[Fuzz]

You know that opening thew Canadian market to US dairy would decimate our industry, right? Sometimes things cost more because it is better for our society as a whole.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

Does that matter?

And I'm not saying we should lower the tariff on American cheese. The tariff applies to every country as far as I understand because its designed to protect our very corrupt and very powerful dairy industry.

We could theoretically maintain our regulations around dairy products, and lower tariffs. This would prevent importers from flooding the market with the so called 'unhealthy' stuff.

But then again, why not let the consumer choose? We have our food standards, yes, but the tariffs are just driving up prices for all Canadians, and the only people winning are the dairy cartels.

Which I suppose is the Canadian way!

A subsidy matters because it offers US producers a significant market advantage, therefore a tariff (regardless of whether the current tariff is the right amount) is required to even the playing field and avoid Canadian producers having their lunch fed to them.

You’d think you’d know these things.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Not sure who’s winning in the tariff war. Seems like everyone loses.

in the wide blanket tariffs Trump was proposing, I'd generally agree that it's hard to find winners. But in more isolated / targeted trade, the winners are clear and the markets can see it, it is the shareholders and management of American steel producers, but the assumption is they are winning at the expense of Canadian producers, the reality is they are winning at the expense of American steel consumers, who will pay these companies more then still pay more to import from Canada too, or worse for the Americans they will see flight of fabrication jobs to Canada or Mexico in order to circumvent the targeted tariff (which i suppose is the argument for a blanket tariff).

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/STLD/
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/NUE/
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CLF/

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You know that opening thew Canadian market to US dairy would decimate our industry, right? Sometimes things cost more because it is better for our society as a whole.

Thanks Trump

It is funny that the political spectrum is a circle, not saying you are wrong, but you are basically making Trumps key argument in a much more intelligent and salient way. It's just that it is a very electorally unpopular argument, so to obfuscate the idea might actually be smarter than?