The Energy Transition and technologies

[Faust]

America’s first ​‘enhanced’ geothermal plant just got up and running

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles...up-and-running

[Fuzz]

That sounds a lot like Eavor, it would be interesting to know if they are doing the exact same thing, or if there are differences that allow each design to exploit advantages.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That sounds a lot like Eavor, it would be interesting to know if they are doing the exact same thing, or if there are differences that allow each design to exploit advantages.

Fervor is using fracking to create liquid reservoirs vs Eavor making a loop I believe. Probably much cheaper to do what Fervo does but higher environmental damage and risks of seismic disturbances as well I'd imagine

[Fuzz]

This new project actually was built on the outskirts of an existing geothermal field where, in Terrell’s words, “there’s hot rock, but there’s no fluid.” To generate geoethermal energy there, Fervo had to drill two horizontal wells through which it pumps water. Fervo pushes cold water through fractures in the rock, which heats it up so it can generate steam back at the surface. It’s a closed-loop system, so the water gets reused — an important feature in a drought-prone region like Nevada.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/28/...thermal-energy


Interesting they describe it as "closed loop", because that's assuming there is no or little loss downhole. Unlike Eavor, they have an open reservoir so you really need to understand the geology a lot more.

[Leondros]

Does Calgary have any Geothermal based companies that are past the start-up phase? I imagine we would have a competitive advantage with all of the geologists, engineers, and drilling service companies we have.

[Leondros]

Looks like Eavor is the only one I can find and is by far the most advanced in terms of Company maturity.

[Mathgod]

That's correct, Eavor is far & away the furthest along in their project progress among companies from Calgary. They are also the most well funded by a large margin.

However, I'd like to shine a spotlight on another Calgary company that I think is on its way to making great things happen. 4th Resource is working on a geothermal project in Ethiopia and is looking for investors.

https://4thresource.ca/

https://youtu.be/FqoYgFXS6EA&t=574

[Faust]

Net Zero “Needs Nuclear Power,” IAEA Says in Landmark Statement Backed by Dozens of Countries at COP28

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pres...tries-at-cop28


China is building nuclear reactors faster than any other country

https://www.economist.com/china/2023...-other-country

[Azure]

What I don't understand about the anti-nuclear perspective, especially in Canada and North America is that the team that upgraded the Bruce Power Unit 6, did it on time and on budget. So it is possible to not run into massive cost over runs.

And they did it during COVID.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

What I don't understand about the anti-nuclear perspective, especially in Canada and North America is that the team that upgraded the Bruce Power Unit 6, did it on time and on budget. So it is possible to not run into massive cost over runs.

And they did it during COVID.

I'm not antinuclear. It would be awesome if we could provide carbon free energy with very little downside. The economics just mean it isn't likely to work though. This article goes through the various issues fairly well if you can get through the author's "know it all" style. Barnard is one if the smartest people in the space, but if you listen to any of his podcasts or read his writing, he'll make sure you know that. And he's Canadian.




https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/30...lear-reactors/

As a note, China couldn’t recreate the conditions for success despite having every ability to do so. Their nuclear program peaked in 2018 with seven reactors achieving commercial operation but has been averaging three reactors a year since. This year the single reactor that’s been connected to the grid may not achieve commercial operation

While the Bruce story is great, it's vastly outnumbered by the opposite cases and they already had their "new nuclear" plant cancelled. There's way too much precedent suggesting a new plant will not be on time or in budget. The only US example since the 3 mile Island accident:

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-n...51be9115e88a64

WAYNESBORO, Ga. (AP) — Two nuclear reactors in Georgia were supposed to herald a nuclear power revival in the United States. But the project is#seven years late and $17 billion over budget#as Georgia Power Co. announced the first new reactor at its Plant Vogtle could reach full electrical output by Saturday.

People act like this is a new phenomenon due to changes in America's ability to build big things like red tape and bureaucracy. Except it's always been this awful. In 1986 a study found that the during the nuclear explosion in the 60's and 70's the projects were more than 200% over budget and way behind schedule. This is just how nuclear is in North America.

https://www.osti.gov/biblio/6071600

[curves2000]

I am currently in Greece for a longer term stay and I came across an article that was highlighting Greece's renewable energy. Greece is blessed with endless sunshine and is extremely mountainous for those of you who don't know. It stated that over 50-55% of all energy generated is green energy.

Canada by comparison appears to be in the single digits 7% in 2021 by this calculation. https://renewablesassociation.ca/by-the-numbers/

Energy and electricity is very expensive in Greece like it is in a lot of European countries. A lot of countries might be used to the high power bills and more. A lot of people's power bills here are downright shocking and cost prohibitive for families and businesses.

What I am wondering is, if Canada comes anywhere near this level of clean energy power generation and our power bills are still sky high and then some, what will the political reaction be?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am currently in Greece for a longer term stay and I came across an article that was highlighting Greece's renewable energy. Greece is blessed with endless sunshine and is extremely mountainous for those of you who don't know. It stated that over 50-55% of all energy generated is green energy.

Canada by comparison appears to be in the single digits 7% in 2021 by this calculation. https://renewablesassociation.ca/by-the-numbers/

Energy and electricity is very expensive in Greece like it is in a lot of European countries. A lot of countries might be used to the high power bills and more. A lot of people's power bills here are downright shocking and cost prohibitive for families and businesses.

What I am wondering is, if Canada comes anywhere near this level of clean energy power generation and our power bills are still sky high and then some, what will the political reaction be?

You are looking at a site that doesn't include hydro as renewable. This is a better picture(though from 2019, so out of date. The current picture would be even better):





https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...es-canada.html


So we already have a vast amount of clean energy. Under 20% of it is polluting, so Canada is in a great state already, as far as generation goes. In short, your fears are unfounded.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am currently in Greece for a longer term stay and I came across an article that was highlighting Greece's renewable energy. Greece is blessed with endless sunshine and is extremely mountainous for those of you who don't know. It stated that over 50-55% of all energy generated is green energy.

Canada by comparison appears to be in the single digits 7% in 2021 by this calculation. https://renewablesassociation.ca/by-the-numbers/

Energy and electricity is very expensive in Greece like it is in a lot of European countries. A lot of countries might be used to the high power bills and more. A lot of people's power bills here are downright shocking and cost prohibitive for families and businesses.

What I am wondering is, if Canada comes anywhere near this level of clean energy power generation and our power bills are still sky high and then some, what will the political reaction be?

The reason for the high electricity prices in Greece is that the price of electricity is set by the marginal cost of generating the last kWh, which is always from gas. Natural Gas in Greece is more than quadruple what it costs here

[Street Pharmacist]

LNG for coal substitution is not great it turns out:

In all of the scenarios considered, across all types of tankers used to transport LNG, methane emissions exceed emissions of carbon dioxide from the final combustion of LNG. Carbon dioxide emissions other than from this final combustion are significant, but smaller than the carbon dioxide from the final combustion. While some proponents of LNG have argued it has a climate benefit by replacing coal, the analysis presented here disproves this. Across all scenarios considered, total greenhouse gas emissions from LNG are larger than those from coal, ranging from 24% to 274% greater.

https://www.research.howarthlab.org/..._2023-1103.pdf



Also, shipping LNG around has no guarantee to be replacing coal. The countries with the infrastructure are countries already decreasing coal usage so it likely is just displacing future renewables or nuclear

[Faust]

Ten energy storage technologies that want to change the world

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-...ld/2-1-1556351

[Faust]

Energy storage of the future? 'Hot rocks' in a box

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/1...kg-ctm-vpx.cnn

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

LNG for coal substitution is not great it turns out:




https://www.research.howarthlab.org/..._2023-1103.pdf



Also, shipping LNG around has no guarantee to be replacing coal. The countries with the infrastructure are companies already decreasing coal usually so it likely is just displacing future renewables or nuclear

In that case I will stick to my locally sourced, free range organic coal, thank you very much!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Faust

Ten energy storage technologies that want to change the world

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-...ld/2-1-1556351

Non Hydro gravity based solutions look to be very expensive even with scaling. Heat batteries are very likely to eliminate industrial heat emissions but I'm not sure it'll work for electricity applications. Flow batteries have a cost/scale problem, but could be a solution in some applications. The Iron air batteries are looking very promising for electricity storage for longer duration, up to 100 hours. Still nothing promising for seasonal storage that I've seen

There's no industry wide definitions for long duration storage and it's a bit of a problem. For example, some lithium ion batteries are installed as "long duration" storage for 4+ hours.

[Street Pharmacist]

The cement industry is one of those "hard to abate" sectors. It's responsible for 8% of all GHG emissions which is more than almost all countries.

To understand why it's so tough to eliminate emissions, you need to know a bit about how cement is made. Concrete is essentially Cement + water +/- aggregate. The cement is the emissions intensive stuff. Cement is made by mixing silicates (a bunch of fairly common rocks) with a product from limestone that's been heated. To make the cement, you need to turn limestone (CaCO3) into Calcium oxide (CaO) by removing a CO2. To do that we heat up a large kiln to 900°F, then 1400°F and the carbon dioxide releases from the limestone. Total emissions from cement production are approximately 50% from the coal used to heat the kiln and 50% from the process of removing the CO2 from the limestone. That means that even if you fully electrified the heating (which many have tried to no success so far), you've only eliminated half of the emissions. On the chemical side, some companies have found ways to add materials like coal ash to decrease CO2 emitted by making the reaction more efficient, but you can only decrease it so much. Some companies have found alternate building materials in place of concrete, but they are expensive and don't have the same properties.

A new company, Sublime Systems, has found a new way to get the Calcium Oxide from non carbonated rocks at room temperature in an electrically powered process. This means you can now completely remove emissions from both sides of the equation. They've made their first production plant and are actively selling cement now, but it's small volume. They have plans to open a megaton production facility by 2026, but that's still 2 years away. The biggest issue with scaling the technology is due to the logistics of the concrete industry. It's very cheap, heavy, voluminous material and therefore financially impossible to ship long distances. That means you have to have these plants located near whatever building needs the concrete. That means you can't just build massive factories to cut down costs, because you need to build lots of smaller factories all over the place. The good news though is that concrete is a very cheap material. That means it's total portion of building costs is very small, so having even a doubling of cement costs doesn't change things much

[Bill Bumface]

^ This is why high rise wood construction is so important. It reduces concrete use, and also sequesters a bunch of carbon.