2010 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flambers

Would disagree, read the following link about Escobar. This guy at the end of last season was thought to be a player with Star potential. He has lots of upside. While Gonzalez was a one year option for the Jays.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

"My take: this is certainly a win-now move for the Braves, who are confident Gonzalez will provide more over the next few months than Escobar would have.

The Blue Jays, meanwhile, managed the rare feat of acquiring three-plus years of a shortstop with star potential without giving up much."

Well, in that case, I like it a bit more. I just really hate the Braves (just as much as the Canucks), so I don't really pay any attention to their players.

I just saw the .234 batting avg... That's not good. Hopefully he returns to his normal form.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

as a Braves fan I like the move.. Yunel is a great SS.. Is a good hitter , but has just struggles this year. He is one of the most pure athletic SS I have seen in a while . Good deal for you guys.. Here is hoping Gonzalez keeps hitting homers out of his mind.. for my Bravos ' sake!

Seems like a really good move by the Braves from a win now perspective. Gonzalez has hit really well this season and should provide the Braves with Offense.

As for the Prospects, Jays die hard fans will be really dissappointed to see Tim Collins go. This fellow is a really good prospect.

However the Jays have lots of pitching prospect in the pipeline.

[Caged Great]

11th round pick SS Shane Opitz signed today

It also appears that 17th round pick RHP Myles Jaye will not sign

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by flambers

Seems like a really good move by the Braves from a win now perspective. Gonzalez has hit really well this season and should provide the Braves with Offense.

As for the Prospects, Jays die hard fans will be really dissappointed to see Tim Collins go. This fellow is a really good prospect.

However the Jays have lots of pitching prospect in the pipeline.

rumor is the braves are currently eyeing Astros Ace Roy Oswalt... however this more of CalgaryPuck type rumor that braves fans are talking about HAHA!

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Well, in that case, I like it a bit more. I just really hate the Braves (just as much as the Canucks), so I don't really pay any attention to their players.

I just saw the .234 batting avg... That's not good. Hopefully he returns to his normal form.

Escobar was considered an "untouchable" young player prospect along with Tommy Hanson. Despite his struggles this year, make no mistake, the Jays got a great young player. As a Braves fan, I actually can't believe this, as it's an excellent move by the Jays.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'm not really sure why they traded him for those two. I'm sure they could've done better. Reyes, is basically a younger version of Tallet, and Escobar is basically John MacDonald with slightly more pop in his bat.

Huh?

McDonald is 36 and has never had an OPS of above .655 and a career average of .596.

Escobar is 27 and in 3 MLB seasons has posted OPS's of .837, .766, and .812.

The Jays got a steal in this trade. Escobar has been a top 5-8 SS since he broke into the league and the Jays got him for a free agent signing and 2 average prospects. He might be struggling this season, but half a season of poor play doesn't come close to discounting his 3 excellent MLB seasons thus far.

[Gozer]

GREAT move by AA, and Toronto fans owe a big thank-you to Gonzalez for his play - which warranted a contender to (badly) overpay.

I assume Collins is more than a throw-in, the Braves must've wanted him, but regardless the Jays are much better off with this trade.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by JayP

Huh?

McDonald is 36 and has never had an OPS of above .655 and a career average of .596.

Escobar is 27 and in 3 MLB seasons has posted OPS's of .837, .766, and .812.

The Jays got a steal in this trade. Escobar has been a top 5-8 SS since he broke into the league and the Jays got him for a free agent signing and 2 average prospects. He might be struggling this season, but half a season of poor play doesn't come close to discounting his 3 excellent MLB seasons thus far.

No kidding. A perfect example of someone either speaking with absolutely no knowledge base or whose opinion is so biased, they can't see straight.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Escobar was considered an "untouchable" young player prospect along with Tommy Hanson. Despite his struggles this year, make no mistake, the Jays got a great young player. As a Braves fan, I actually can't believe this, as it's an excellent move by the Jays.

He is 27 years old, how is he a great YOUNG player?

Originally Posted by Gozer

GREAT move by AA, and Toronto fans owe a big thank-you to Gonzalez for his play - which warranted a contender to (badly) overpay.

I think it is a solid move for the Jays but not sure how giving up a useless pitcher and okay SS who isn't likely to improve is a an overpayment, let alone badly overpaying.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by moon

I think it is a solid move for the Jays but not sure how giving up a useless pitcher and okay SS who isn't likely to improve is a an overpayment, let alone badly overpaying.

25 and 27 year olds are able to improve. You may think they won't, but unlikely is at-best an assumption.
Top-tier pitching and SS are predominatly veterans, there is a long learning curve.

I consider it an overpayment because a 27 year old SS that has recieved an MVP vote is now under control for three years.
I'm not saying it's a bad trade for the Braves, but (I suspect) they were aiming for a better pitching prospect than Collins.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by moon

He is 27 years old, how is he a great YOUNG player?

I think it is a solid move for the Jays but not sure how giving up a useless pitcher and okay SS who isn't likely to improve is a an overpayment, let alone badly overpaying.

Well they got a player with considerable upside, who is way better than "okay" (gold glove contender and a 4/5 tool guy) and is young compared to most of the rest of the active roster... namely grandpa McDonald.

The Braves, on the other hand, received Gonzalez who is playing way over his head this year and is 5-6 years older than Escobar.

The winner of this trade is clear - the Jays got the best player in the trade who will be the best player in the trade for several years.

[Jason14h]

I think it is a solid move for the Jays but not sure how giving up a useless pitcher and okay SS who isn't likely to improve is a an overpayment, let alone badly overpaying.

Even if Escobar only gets back to being a .280 hitter with a .365 OBP it's a great deal. He's chaeap and under control until 2013.

Gonzo was excellent for the Jays, but coming into this season no team wanted him. There's a reason we signed him for 2.5 million. Sure he is having a terrific year, but it's a career best at age 33.

The 2 pitching prospects are irrelevant, as neither will probably ever have an impact for a contending team.

The wildcard is Pastornicky. He is really fast, and is the type of player I always wish the Jays could get at the top of their order. However, he has only hit .260 in A ball and there are a million players like him in the league.

Basically the Jays turned a 1.5 million FA fill in into Escobar. How is that not a great trade?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by moon

He is 27 years old, how is he a great YOUNG player?


I think it is a solid move for the Jays but not sure how giving up a useless pitcher and okay SS who isn't likely to improve is a an overpayment, let alone badly overpaying.

Yikes, you do realize that the Jays have no chance at a playoff spot, Gonzalez was a one year rental who was having a career year. Really good time to trade him.

Jays will be trading more of those type of players in the up coming weeks IMO (ie. Buck, Downs, Frasor, Overbay, Gregg etc).

There is nothing to be lost by the Jays to take a chance at a Shortstop that the Jays can control for 3 years and has//had star potential (i.e. he did receive MVP votes last year).

Jays sure they took a risk, but this is a good risk to take. If it works out great.

As for his age, remember he has only played two full seasons for the Braves. His first season he played ~ 45 games in AAA before getting recalled from Minors.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Gozer

25 and 27 year olds are able to improve. You may think they won't, but unlikely is at-best an assumption.
Top-tier pitching and SS are predominatly veterans, there is a long learning curve.

27 year olds certainly can improve but for the vast majority by that point they have played enough professional baseball that they are what they are going to be. With Escobar that isn't a bad thing, just the wording of a young player to me seems like a guy that is likely to improve on his numbers and there is no reason to think that Escobar will do that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flambers

Yikes, you do realize that the Jays have no chance at a playoff spot, Gonzalez was a one year rental who was having a career year. Really good time to trade him.

Jays will be trading more of those type of players in the up coming weeks IMO (ie. Buck, Downs, Frasor, Overbay, Gregg etc).

There is nothing to be lost by the Jays to take a chance at a Shortstop that the Jays can control for 3 years and has//had star potential (i.e. he did receive MVP votes last year).

Jays sure they took a risk, but this is a good risk to take. If it works out great.

As for his age, remember he has only played two full seasons for the Braves. His first season he played ~ 45 games in AAA before getting recalled from Minors.

Last season he had a .813 OPS

I agreed that it was a solid move by the Jays I just don't think that it was a great deal or that much of an overpayment. So not exactly sure what the yikes is about.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by moon

I agreed that it was a solid move by the Jays I just don't think that it was a great deal or that much of an overpayment. So not exactly sure what the yikes is about.

Yikes, is your comments tend be negative on every Blue Jay move.

Following link explains this move better than I could.

Key is the Jays traded a pending UFA guy and two prospects for this Escoabar. Its a great move and worth the risk.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=327488

"If I told Jays' fans before the season started that the team would be able to add a 27-year old shortstop who actually received National League MVP votes last season for a pair of players in the low minors and a 33-year old shortstop who is having a career first half, I'm guessing that they would have jumped at the chance - especially when you consider how long it's been that the Jays have had a long-term solution at the position."

[moon]

Originally Posted by flambers

Yikes, is your comments tend be negative on every Blue Jay move.

I don't think that they are negative so much as they are more negative compared to the Jays fans on here. This instance is a perfect example in which the only reason my view looks negative is that I am not as positive as Jays fan but am actually saying it is a good move.

[nik-]

Nice move .. and we still have Hechavarria waiting in the wings.

[Jiggy_12]

GREAT trade, are you kidding me?

The Jays turned nothing (2.5 mil) into a potential all-star shortstop. Gonzalez was signed for this year and IIRC a club option for next year, so the Braves don't come out too badly short term. Long term, Jays win this one hands down. They essentially turned nothing in to a very large asset. Nice!

[Jiggy_12]

Absolute text book example of buying low and selling high.