[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[Gemnoble]

So Notley basically said she needs to see the paperwork before committing to the Arena deal. Then said the words "Danielle Smith" an awful lot.

I'm surprised Notleys government doesn't have access to the deal under some sort of NDA as the others appear to be.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And I don't think I need to point out the obvious, but OF COURSE you can't trust Danielle Smith. She has been deceiving Albertans for decades. Is your memory that short? Notley is just stating the obvious here, you can't trust Smith. If you do, well, that kinda speaks volumes about your ability to evaluate facts and history.

I still can’t believe the UCP didn’t have someone better than Smith. I really thought she’d be done after the crossing the aisle debacle under Prentice. Did they really not have any one better?

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Of course it could! what would you propose... Province of Alberta only support health care and not invest in any urban upgrades?

I thought health care issue is mostly because less doctors and nurses.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

So Notley basically said she needs to see the paperwork before committing to the Arena deal. Then said the words "Danielle Smith" an awful lot.

I'm surprised Notleys government doesn't have access to the deal under some sort of NDA as the others appear to be.

Notley is not in government yet

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by Bonded

No, they waited until there apparently isn’t enough time to release the full details of the deal right before the election and are saying just trust me bro.

The province would not be able to release certain details anyway. They’re part of this announcement was funding for infrastructure and a public arena. Details around the flames/city/stampede wouldn’t be available for province to release anyway.

Deal between city/CSEC was unanimously approved by city council.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

The province would not be able to release certain details anyway. They’re part of this announcement was funding for infrastructure and a public arena. Details around the flames/city/stampede wouldn’t be available for province to release anyway.

Deal between city/CSEC was unanimously approved by city council.

The province could definitely make their funding contingent on releasing the details of the entire agreement to the public. If the province is also contributing to cost overruns that should be public as well

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Smitty is on the Fan right now for anyone who is interested

I wonder what the cringes per 60 will be during this interview.

I gave it a listen, nothing earth shattering.

When asked about Notley's comments today, she just emphasized that the provincial component was for infrastructure improvements, and that it isn't unusual for the province to fund such endeavors. It worked out this time that they could use it to help the City and CSEC reach a deal, but that the province wasn't funding an arena.

As for any secret side deals, she said again that their part was only about infrastructure, and if the City and CSEC want to share additional details about their agreement, that is on them.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Notley is not in government yet

Her Official Opposition co-members then

[Finger Cookin]

I feel like that as a small online community we're making good progress in settling this debate once and for all. We're just on the cusp.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

Her Official Opposition co-members then

Ya that is 100% not how government works. They don’t just share everything with the opposition.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I happened to be in the car and hear her

Province she says has been transparent
Province was a cheerleader for CSEC and the City
Province will spend 300 m on infrastructure (say 100 m/yr over 3 years) which will be required plus half of the community arena (30 m)
Bettman was vocal about Calgary having the worst arena in the league, she values the BoA, doesn’t want the team to leave and viewed it as a risk

Steinberg asked if she had any comment about any agreements that were not disclosed

She said the provincial govt was transparent and anything to do with any agreement between CSEC and the City are not her story to tell


Edit: I see FlamesAddiction had this covered

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

A lot of people don’t complain about property taxes

Taxes are meant to be used for things including services and infrastructure


Yes, the government has money earmarked for infrastructure. Not sure why that is a problem. Point is, if it’s already budgeted for, these aren’t new taxpayer dollars. It’s just the allocation of the earmarked dollars

There are obvious immediate economic benefits, it’s not like this is a sunk cost. In the near term, a bunch of that investment goes directly into the local labour force and businesses providing the materials and services. Money into the local economy. The government will also collect back the GST on the transactions, and income taxes for all the labourers, no?

I would expect the project will attract further private sector development


Let’s do a quick calculation - worst case scenario — say this is just a massive sunk cost and was all net new dollars they were asking for - then if the contribution would see me holding the bag equally with all Albertans

1.226 B / 4.5 million is 272 per Albertan
Over 35 years, that’s $7.78 a year

70 percent (which Notley said taxpayers are paying) of that is $5.44 per year

I personally make worse decisions with 5 bucks more than once a year.
(Anyone here ever bought a ticket to a Flames game? )

(Also, I’m sure there is someone on here complaining about it, that also just throws out their recyclables instead of going to the bottle depot.)


Meanwhile the Alberta government had higher than forecasted 76 billion (14 billion higher than the budgeted 62) in projected revenue in 2022-23

They have a 23 billion dollar capital plan this year covering many things and this is a line item, and I’m sure the capital spend is spread over a few years


I’m fine. I will not notice a thing in my day to day and expect most people won’t either. It will be much more of a high profile bitching contest than anything that torpedoes anyone’s way of life

Build a new stadium.

Maybe Taylor Swift will come here

At the end of the day this is a permanent 2.4% increase in property taxes, which means it is costing 88 dollars a year for every single property tax payor. It will be up to folks to determine if a permanent 2.4% increase in their property taxes is worth an arena.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I happened to be in the car and hear her

Province she says has been transparent
Province was a cheerleader for CSEC and the City
Province will spend 300 m on infrastructure (say 100 m/yr over 3 years) which will be required plus half of the community arena (30 m)
Bettman was vocal about Calgary having the worst arena in the league, she values the BoA, doesn’t want the team to leave and viewed it as a risk

Steinberg asked if she had any comment about any agreements that were not disclosed

She said the provincial govt was transparent and anything to do with any agreement between CSEC and the City are not her story to tell


Edit: I see FlamesAddiction had this covered

You got way more details than I did. I missed hearing the first part, so thanks for posting.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Relax. Kids might have had to wait 18 hours in the emergency room and get treated in trailers outside of the Children's Hospital a few months ago, but the arena the millionaires skate around in for a few hundred hours a year is like... ugly... and the dressing rooms? yuck. And don't even MAKE me mention the concrete roof that sends chunks off killing 10-15 attendees during every event. That's real, man, don't look it up. Just trust me. Losing a couple kids to healthcare capacity issues is worth fixing this extremely important issue. Survival of the fittest my guy.

So we just need more kids to die from falling concrete to reduce load on the Children’s hospital. 4D politicking.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Of course it could! what would you propose... Province of Alberta only support health care and not invest in any urban upgrades?

Yeah, totally. Definitely the only alternative. Great stuff.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It would be quite inefficient to send an individual to collect 5 dollars from every person in the province. That is absurd

Don’t worry, it was just a made up job based on your made up calculation. Nobody is going to ask you to do it.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It’s not in the ether. Infrastructure is infrastructure. It’s budgeted, it’s being allocated. They said no incremental tax dollars during the presser.

I never said there should be no detailed disclosure, I agree there should be

“It’s budgeted” doesn’t mean anything when it being budgeted there instead of elsewhere is the issue.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And never said the money couldn’t be better spent. For a lot of people, sure it can. So what. That applies to every dollar spent everywhere

That’s not how this works and is a genuinely hilarious position to have. Sure, cancer centre money could be better spent on new cars for people who won’t get cancer, but that’s not a real life position any serious person takes. Come on now.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Nobody is ever going to gift wrap a full guaranteed investment plan with full ROI for you. You know that.

But you can figure out what some of those numbers are if you want. It’s easy. Assume a percent of the investment going to labour, assume a nominal tax rate, there is a line item for you.

Yeah, ROI isn’t derived from made up line items. That might be how it works to people that say “so what” to money being poorly spent, but that’s not actually how it works.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

What do you think they can do better? Consult with Qatar about how they managed to quickly and efficiently build so many stadiums?

Yes, that is a great read on my position. Let’s pass it over to Qatar.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I still can’t believe the UCP didn’t have someone better than Smith. I really thought she’d be done after the crossing the aisle debacle under Prentice. Did they really not have any one better?

The person who she replaced had better approval in the UCP than she did coming in. It's baffling.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I gave it a listen, nothing earth shattering.

When asked about Notley's comments today, she just emphasized that the provincial component was for infrastructure improvements, and that it isn't unusual for the province to fund such endeavors. It worked out this time that they could use it to help the City and CSEC reach a deal, but that the province wasn't funding an arena.

As for any secret side deals, she said again that their part was only about infrastructure, and if the City and CSEC want to share additional details about their agreement, that is on them.

What a crock.

[Tuco]

3-5 years this bad boy will be up!

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I still can’t believe the UCP didn’t have someone better than Smith. I really thought she’d be done after the crossing the aisle debacle under Prentice. Did they really not have any one better?

Are any politicians better? None of them are typically qualified to do anything other than grifting tax payer money.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, totally. Definitely the only alternative. Great stuff.



Don’t worry, it was just a made up job based on your made up calculation. Nobody is going to ask you to do it.



“It’s budgeted” doesn’t mean anything when it being budgeted there instead of elsewhere is the issue.



That’s not how this works and is a genuinely hilarious position to have. Sure, cancer centre money could be better spent on new cars for people who won’t get cancer, but that’s not a real life position any serious person takes. Come on now.



Yeah, ROI isn’t derived from made up line items. That might be how it works to people that say “so what” to money being poorly spent, but that’s not actually how it works.



Yes, that is a great read on my position. Let’s pass it over to Qatar.

Great. Since you know, tell me how “it” works

Show me the details on the stadium built with the ROI disclosure you seem to think is necessary