getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If you’re doing drugs in the street, you belong in jail.

If you think the solution is just to let these people shoot up in public with impunity, you’re not compassionate.

Jamming someone up for having drugs on them while otherwise not doing anything is bull####.

Arresting someone blitzed out of their mind on fentanyl at 10am on a Wednesday as they stand in front of a daycare playground on 11th Ave is not.

It should be standard operating procedure.

Heroin is a demon drug, and people can’t be made to get clean. They have to decide to do it for themselves, and Hitting rock bottom is important.

For many, getting arrested is that rock bottom.

But we just don’t do that anymore because… Why?

Leaving people to their own devices until they die is not compassion. It’s the opposite.

This haiku is terrible

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by nik-

This haiku is terrible

Smack. Breakfast of champs.
Look the world in the eye. Why?
Things are going great.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If you’re doing drugs in the street, you belong in jail.

If you think the solution is just to let these people shoot up in public with impunity, you’re not compassionate.

Jamming someone up for having drugs on them while otherwise not doing anything is bull####.

Arresting someone blitzed out of their mind on fentanyl at 10am on a Wednesday as they stand in front of a daycare playground on 11th Ave is not.

It should be standard operating procedure.

Heroin is a demon drug, and people can’t be made to get clean. They have to decide to do it for themselves, and Hitting rock bottom is important.

For many, getting arrested is that rock bottom.

But we just don’t do that anymore because… Why?

Leaving people to their own devices until they die is not compassion. It’s the opposite.

Because criminalizing the addiction that underlies this, often the mental illness and the fact they are basically being preyed upon by the scum if the earth drug chemists who are creating this mess is borderline criminal itself for a society.

That doesn’t excuse it, or say in any way not to deal with it, or to excuse other criminal behaviour occurring (theft, violence, etc) but sending these folks to prison for having some crack or meth on them is also not the solution.

[jayswin]

Jail is a terrible, default rock bottom, because it offers no ladder back up. We've had decades and decades of the failed war on drugs to understand this and yet it's coming back as a "good solution" to drug addiction by such a large percentage of society.

I have lost all faith in this word and our ability to progress as a society in my few years on this planet. Every mistake that was ever made seems to just be made again out of emotion. That's who we are, monkeys.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Because criminalizing the addiction that underlies this, often the mental illness and the fact they are basically being preyed upon by the scum if the earth drug chemists who are creating this mess is borderline criminal itself for a society.

That doesn’t excuse it, or say in any way not to deal with it, or to excuse other criminal behaviour occurring (theft, violence, etc) but sending these folks to prison for having some crack or meth on them is also not the solution.

But it's what we cry for because we fail to look deeper and look at past wins/losses. We're emotional creatures and it holds us back in insane ways. It's so depressing.

[Cowboy89]

The juxtaposition of city life is somewhat comical when you think that showing up with a cooler of cold ones at a non designated picnic spot for a BBQ at Bowness Park could land you with bylaw officers writing you up, while at Chinook Station we’re all supposed to ‘live and let live’ the drug dens the ctrain shelters have become.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Because criminalizing the addiction that underlies this, often the mental illness and the fact they are basically being preyed upon by the scum if the earth drug chemists who are creating this mess is borderline criminal itself for a society.

That doesn’t excuse it, or say in any way not to deal with it, or to excuse other criminal behaviour occurring (theft, violence, etc) but sending these folks to prison for having some crack or meth on them is also not the solution.

I literally said possession is not a reason to arrest someone.

Public intoxication is Though. And if you can’t even get back to your tent, or your flop house, or at least out of sight of a bunch of preschoolers, you have lost control of your life and getting arrested might be the only thing that saves you. It probably won’t. But staying on the streets and doing drugs that curve your spine is just going to end in death.

I don’t get why that’s somehow more acceptable.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Arresting someone blitzed out of their mind on fentanyl at 10am on a Wednesday as they stand in front of a daycare playground on 11th Ave is not.

They're just trying to figure out why everyone at Coconut Joe's is so short.

[Whynotnow]

Because criminalizing intoxication is basically the same thing.

And just letting this go on is not the solution here. We need more of just about everything - recovery spaces built around different models, shelters, transitional housing and low income but safe and secure, out reach workers, early intervention in schools to stop letting kids fall through the cracks, better economy for indigenous communities who are grossly over represented in the population being discussed, aggressive policing of importers and dealers, employability programs, way more mental health treatment. The list is long, complicated and nothing will be quick or easy but not getting started means we never get there.

[GreenLantern2814]

Having acceptable standards of behaviour is a start.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Having acceptable standards of behaviour is a start.

Well that’s a whole kettle of fish isn’t it? Who gets to be the almighty arbiter of what is an acceptable standard of behaviour?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Well that’s a whole kettle of fish isn’t it? Who gets to be the almighty arbiter of what is an acceptable standard of behaviour?

We do. That’s what democracies, courts, and the rule of law are for, Junior.

[Whynotnow]

Lol Junior, nice add to the conversation. My new join date here certainly doesn’t align with my join date of this world.

We should be as a society very frustrated, and we need to be doing more, quickly here. We need to reclaim spaces meant for us to travel safely in and enjoy our communities, transit needs to be for the public, but we can achieve this without creating thousands of criminal records and incarceration of people that has never proven to be a success to any great degree. It satisfies an urge but doesn’t solve the problem.

[TorqueDog]

We've been over what needs to be done countless times; medically-assisted treatment as part of said sentencing. Something that could be done if the powers-that-be actually gave a crap about fixing the problem enough to implement it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Lol Junior, nice add to the conversation. My new join date here certainly doesn’t align with my join date of this world.

We should be as a society very frustrated, and we need to be doing more, quickly here. We need to reclaim spaces meant for us to travel safely in and enjoy our communities, transit needs to be for the public, but we can achieve this without creating thousands of criminal records and incarceration of people that has never proven to be a success to any great degree. It satisfies an urge but doesn’t solve the problem.

When you ask something as daft as “who’s to decide what an acceptable standard of behaviour is”, forgive me if I assume you’ve only lived in one century.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

When you ask something as daft as “who’s to decide what an acceptable standard of behaviour is”, forgive me if I assume you’ve only lived in one century.

Not even close I’m afraid, I still have more time in the other century than this one, for a little bit yet. I was just cautioning against defining acceptable behaviour, but yes I recognize that laws do exactly that. But if you are going to start arresting people for being stoned/drunk/high, yelling loudly, urinating in public and being aggressive then there can’t be two standards here. You need to be in ctrains after hockey games, on streets after last call….otherwise it just feels to me like you are using the law to take care of an uncomfortable problem and doing it selectively.

[jayswin]

There is some truth to what he's saying, for sure. Yes, it appears black and white what Greenlantern is suggesting, but Whynotnow is correct that there would definitely be a double standard between "have" citizens and "have not" citizens in handing out tickets/arrests for "poor public behaviour".

I mean I as a white, decent earning male have been stumbling drunk and belligerent around police at times in my past and it has always been met with "move along haha" to outright acceptance and laughter as they see me as different than an addict.

That's a huge concern to me.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Because criminalizing the addiction that underlies this, often the mental illness and the fact they are basically being preyed upon by the scum if the earth drug chemists who are creating this mess is borderline criminal itself for a society.

That doesn’t excuse it, or say in any way not to deal with it, or to excuse other criminal behaviour occurring (theft, violence, etc) but sending these folks to prison for having some crack or meth on them is also not the solution.

It's a better solution than leaving them on the streets to slowly commit suicide with these drugs, meanwhile, people who have their #### together have to step over needles and passed out junkies, and avoid eye contact on public transit with hopped up addicts who are assaulting people near daily.

I swear its ####ing amazing how bad things are getting for regular working class people. Inflation, climate change, and, "shut up and let the zombie meth addict call you wife a bitch" shaming of lack of concern for the "unhoused".

[chockfullofgoodness]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Well that’s a whole kettle of fish isn’t it? Who gets to be the almighty arbiter of what is an acceptable standard of behaviour?

The police? The rule of law?

[Traditional_Ale]

It seriously costs the city 100k a year per homeless person?

Offer every single homeless addict actually dignified rehab (I've personally seen first hand what is on offer and it the farthest thing from dignified), then assisted living, and with first weekly, bi-weekly, and then monthly drug testing offer 20% of that (so 20k) as a carrot after a year sober to be put towards school/job training.

But Trad! Why should addicts get a free 20k for education when I did everything right and have to pay for it myself!?

Because you don't have a terrible disease and debilitating mental illness. Stop comparing yourself to the lowest of low like its somehow an injustice your basic standard of existence isn't a wretched hell.