The Democratic Presidential Nomination 2020

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Universal Healthcare in the US is like Gun Control, everybody sees the sense of it and will, when polled agree its a good idea but almost no one will vote for it because they are terrified of losing what they have.

To run on a platform of taking away healthcare from 70% of Americans on a promise that a divided not particularly functional Government can get their act together to replace it with something else is as unbelievable as asking Americans to give up their guns on the basis that the police will keep them safe, Americans don't trust the ability of Government to serve them and while agreeing that everyone else should get their gun taken away or get Universal Healthcare almost none of that 70% will vote to lose their healthcare or their perceived ability to defend themselves.

I agree with you overall, but the bolded is where the change is happening. So many are fed up with their lack of coverage. And to me, it is becoming prevalent enough that most people now know someone that is getting screwed by their healthcare. And that is when the tide turns.

American society made a huge swing in acceptance of homosexuality and I think in large part was because people started realizing that there were already gay people in their lives and that they weren't monsters or deviants. I think we are getting to that tipping point with healthcare that enough people are seeing how fundamentally broken it is, that they would be willing to give it a shot.

We probably aren't there quite yet, but even with this great economy we've had, its still been bleak enough to gain traction.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Just to clarify, Medicaid is run by states and inconsistent and gives pretty crappy access to Doctors in a lot of areas. Medicare is federally run and has much better access to Doctors.

People who currently have Medicaid or have kids on it would probably be in favor of it being replaced by Medicare.

I suspect almost everyone in the US is in favour in principle of universal healthcare, the US system is grimly insecure, but that is, ironically why it is an impossible sell politically, the consequence of losing even the crappy healthcare you have, especially if you have kids or are poor, is so grave, can literally kill you, that like letting go of the tree branch in the ever growing flood, no one is going to risk it when push comes to shove.

What progressives don't get is Bernie isn't selling giving people Healthcare he is selling taking healthcare away from everyone in the US, a country where not having healthcare is a death sentence for many thousands a year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Ahh, so we're basing what young people know and think about Pete off of New Era's anecdotal evidence now? Sounds super reliable and objective.

Ahhh, but we should accept your "hot takes" whole cloth?

I just love it when someone in another country tells me what conditions I'm living under, especially what people think when they don't even have opportunity to talk to the people they are making claims about. Young Americans are very politically disengaged and most of them couldn't tell you who their state senators are let alone someone campaigning for the nomination.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ahhh, but we should accept your "hot takes" whole cloth?

I just love it when someone in another country tells me what conditions I'm living under, especially what people think when they don't even have opportunity to talk to the people they are making claims about. Young Americans are very politically disengaged and most of them couldn't tell you who their state senators are let alone someone campaigning for the nomination.

Dude, you do this to Canadians all the time on this board.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

But here is the funny thing:

At some point, everyone is going to lose the health care that they currently have, whether because they lose their job, change jobs, or—-wait for it—-end up on Medicare at age 65 anyway.

I honestly do not understand how people can be so stupid to be against something that they will eventually need and be on eventually.

That's the problem with the majority of Americans. They don't think of the big picture and consider long-term outcomes. It is very frustrating and why team sport politics is prevalent down here. Issues are too complex and require too much predictive thinking for people to be bothered.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ahhh, but we should accept your "hot takes" whole cloth?

I just love it when someone in another country tells me what conditions I'm living under, especially what people think when they don't even have opportunity to talk to the people they are making claims about. Young Americans are very politically disengaged and most of them couldn't tell you who their state senators are let alone someone campaigning for the nomination.

This is the part when someone chimes in with "ok boomer"

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

But here is the funny thing:

At some point, everyone is going to lose the health care that they currently have, whether because they lose their job, change jobs, or—-wait for it—-end up on Medicare at age 65 anyway.

I honestly do not understand how people can be so stupid to be against something that they will eventually need and be on eventually.

Because as ####ty as the system is right now it is at least predictable, Bernie offers the voter an utterly unpredictable future health system in a country where worrying about healthcare, being scared ####less of not being covered is second nature to every voter, for a vast number of the pension age getting Medicare is the only time in their life they have not had to worry about getting ill, they vote and Bernie is asking them to give that security up.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ahhh, but we should accept your "hot takes" whole cloth?

I just love it when someone in another country tells me what conditions I'm living under, especially what people think when they don't even have opportunity to talk to the people they are making claims about. Young Americans are very politically disengaged and most of them couldn't tell you who their state senators are let alone someone campaigning for the nomination.

Must be why minority voters dislike Pete, too. Just not engaged enough.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Dude, you do this to Canadians all the time on this board.

Really? Go into the Canadian politics thread and count the number of posts I have in that thread. I don't tell you #### about who you should vote or what policies you should adopt because I don't have skin in the game. I talk about the issues in my backyard. The two exceptions to this rule are the climate change thread (because it affects the entire planet) and the arena thread (because I'm a Flames fan). Other than that I only comment on things that directly impact my backyard.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Dude, you do this to Canadians all the time on this board.

The most hilarious thing is the notion that because I'm Canadian, I must not speak to any younger Americans. As if traveling, work, school, media/social media outlets, other points of interaction don't exist.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? Go into the Canadian politics thread and count the number of posts I have in that thread. I don't tell you #### about who you should vote or what policies you should adopt because I don't have skin in the game. I talk about the issues in my backyard. The two exceptions to this rule are the climate change thread (because it affects the entire planet) and the arena thread (because I'm a Flames fan). Other than that I only comment on things that directly impact my backyard.

So I guess we should shut down this and the other American politics thread or restrict it to U.S. posters only? Better shut down the Brexit thread, too, since the majority of us don't live in the UK (I still get to participate because I have dual citizenship).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Must be why minority voters dislike Pete, too. Just not engaged enough.

Or, they never heard of him?

You know, the same reason why Yang was forced to drop out? A good candidate with some really good ideas, but the vast majority of the country never knew who he was.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

Or, they never heard of him?

You know, the same reason why Yang was forced to drop out? A good candidate with some really good ideas, but the vast majority of the country never knew who he was.

That's some quality circular-logic there.

[ResAlien]

I live in the states, can I say that Pete sucks and not only do young voters know who he is they dislike him because they can smell a phoney? His track record with minorities is abysmal and he’s really just young Biden. He is as establishment dem as it gets

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So I guess we should shut down this and the other American politics thread or restrict it to U.S. posters only? Better shut down the Brexit thread, too, since the majority of us don't live in the UK (I still get to participate because I have dual citizenship).

No, but respect the fact that what you get out of the media, and the media you consume, is NOT reflective of the reality that the vast majority of Americans face. Feel free to discuss issues, I'm all about discussion of issues, but don't think for a second that because you have a twitter, facebook, or some other social media account that you have any insight into the American experience other than the anecdotal evidence you cull from that. You're looking at the broader expanse through a pin hole. Kind of like if people came to CP and thought this board was reflective of ALL Calgary Flames fans, which it clearly is not, or was reflective of the whole NHL, which is definitely is not. There's a lot more out there than is evident in media, especially social media.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

His track record with minorities is abysmal

What? Are you trying to say that bowing to his corporate downers to have his black police chief fired, overseeing an increase in black arrests for marijuana possession while mayor, and telling black voters he's not asking for their vote might have cast him in a negative light with them? Are you sure it isn't because they haven't heard of him?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I live in the states, can I say that Pete sucks and not only do young voters know who he is they dislike him because they can smell a phoney? His track record with minorities is abysmal and he’s really just young Biden. He is as establishment dem as it gets

But do you really live in the States?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by nik-

But do you really live in the States?

Colorado is basically Mexico, so no.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I live in the states, can I say that Pete sucks and not only do young voters know who he is they dislike him because they can smell a phoney? His track record with minorities is abysmal and he’s really just young Biden. He is as establishment dem as it gets

Sure, fill your boots. I would happily take a young Biden right now. When the alternative is Donald Trump and him destroying the very institutions that make up this country, I'll take "an establishment dem" in a heartbeat.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, but respect the fact that what you get out of the media, and the media you consume, is NOT reflective of the reality that the vast majority of Americans face. Feel free to discuss issues, I'm all about discussion of issues, but don't think for a second that because you have a twitter, facebook, or some other social media account that you have any insight into the American experience other than the anecdotal evidence you cull from that. You're looking at the broader expanse through a pin hole. Kind of like if people came to CP and thought this board was reflective of ALL Calgary Flames fans, which it clearly is not, or was reflective of the whole NHL, which is definitely is not. There's a lot more out there than is evident in media, especially social media.

But that's not what I said. I've traveled extensively in the U.S. and met many Americans while traveling in other countries, I'm close friends with Americans who live in various parts of the country, my dad lived in rural Tennessee for a decade, and I live in a a popular tourist destination that is technically inside the U.S. border and has hundreds of thousands of American tourists passing through it annually.

I'm not saying any of this makes me an expert, but you might want to lay off the assumptions.