02-23-2015, 12:56 AM
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#1141
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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I understand as well. It could be a smart strategy.
But if they lose Cammy and Glencross back to back years for nothing..........not sure it's the best strategy. We'll see.
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02-23-2015, 01:00 AM
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#1142
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduril
Proof for the bolded? As far as I can remember, there were a number of wingers that the hockey talk shows were waiting on news of being dealt. Lots of action near the end involving these guys once it was evident that Kesler wasn't going to move and for relatively cheap prices between 3rd+. Vanek only got a minor league swap and a condition 2nd.
Checking back, NHL.com reported the Hemsky trade 15mins before the trade deadline at 3pm EST. He was the last of 3 main wingers being moved as they were all traded within a short span of each other.
And it was Gillies' fault, not Snow.
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Not sure what you mean by proof. He didn't deal him, so obviously things didn't work out.
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02-23-2015, 01:02 AM
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#1143
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And I Don't Care...
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The land of the eternally hopeful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
Since the thread is already fully derailed... My biggest problem with your logic is that you are looking at it strictly as playoffs/extension vs. lost asset.
First of all you need to consider the value Cammalleri gave the Flames between the trade deadline and the off-season. He helped make games more exciting, and gain a few more wins. We saw first hand how vital is hope and excitement during a rebuild. It is what keeps the average fan paying attention during a 'planned' playoff-less season. That attention converts into hockey tickets, extra viewers and merchandise. It is not something I can gauge, but the GM and president have their own estimations.
Second of all no one knows exactly what the deal was, it might have included taking a contract back. It could have been a depth prospect. Also, at the time we had Burke at the helm, so perhaps he wanted to leave the decision regarding the extension(at a higher cap value than he offered) to the new upcoming GM.
Finally third, Cammalleri is a person not a chess piece. A minor return might not have been significant enough to ask him to move. It would've probably meant leaving his wife and three year old daughter for a few months, or uproot them at a moments notice. Such is the hockey business and Cammalleri is compensated well for it, but why trade him just to claim you made a trade?
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That's why I said this:
Quote:
There's a lot of other factors involved, I know. I just think if a team continually sticks to it's guns and lets pending free agents walk for nothing, at the end of a given period of time, the team is worse off because they didn't get anything when they could have. A pick, any pick can turn into something. We know that, looking at guys in our history like Fleury, Suter, Brodie and Gaudreau, just to name a few.
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__________________
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02-23-2015, 01:07 AM
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#1144
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn
Still doesn't make sense to me. So, it's better to get nothing than take a pick for a guy? On principle? Because somehow this is going to send a message to other teams? To me, it's plain old bad asset management if you have an upcoming free agent and it's clear you're not going to make the playoffs and you get nothing for him. The only offers you're getting are 4th round picks? Ok, well it would appear that's all you're going to get, so take it. The alternative gets you nothing. Literally and with regards to your reputation around the league. It makes no difference and in fact is harmful to your organization to not maximize your returns.
The fact that you would take X pick for X guy now has zero impact on any future deals.
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Just curious, a few years ago, since other teams knew Iginla would only go to 1 team (Pittsburg), if Pittsburg offered a conditional 4th round pick (5th if he leaves as a UFA) should the Flames take the best he can get?
just trying to understand your thinking, cause i don't
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"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
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02-23-2015, 01:17 AM
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#1145
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy
Starting with and sorry, it gets really heavy sarcasm
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Yes, I know you were being sarcastic about that part. I'm referring more about your statement of you saying Stajan is piping hot garbage and have no idea how he is still in the NHL.
Fact is, there are plenty of bad & mediocre NHL players. That's just how it is. Also, there are a lot worse players in the NHL than Stajan, so you can have that same sentiment of a number of other guys.
But really, that Stajan statement was ridiculous and over the top and you are a troll like WRUCOS, only he trolls Backlund and you troll Stajan.
Last edited by Karl; 02-23-2015 at 01:51 AM.
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02-23-2015, 01:24 AM
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#1146
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Just curious, a few years ago, since other teams knew Iginla would only go to 1 team (Pittsburg), if Pittsburg offered a conditional 4th round pick (5th if he leaves as a UFA) should the Flames take the best he can get?
just trying to understand your thinking, cause i don't
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I think Jimmy assumes that in general, you get market value for most trades. If you hold out for higher than market value or market value is too much for the players in the market, then you should drop value. Doing otherwise is dumb.
But as sureloss pointed out, if a GM knows you are a weak GM you will probably leverage that. Likely, you will only ever get trades that are below market value.
I agree with sureloss. Jimmy's idea works if the GMs don't know each other and will not do repeat trades with each other (ie: Like us buying a house). But it doesn't work in the situation where they trade over and over and over with each other. Taking what you can by trade deadline isn't like being a few points higher in value in a portfolio of players.
EDIT: I could be completely wrong on what they are thinking... that was just my personal take on it.
Last edited by DoubleF; 02-23-2015 at 01:27 AM.
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02-23-2015, 01:39 AM
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#1147
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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^ Agreed
On top of that, there are other considerations.
Was the 3rd rounder guaranteed? Or conditional?
Did Calgary have to eat salary to get that 3rd rounder? Did the owners really want to pay whatever money for a player who wasn't going to play for their team?
Would there be opportunity cost? Obviously, teams that were looking to acquire Cammalleri were pre-occupied with Kesler/Vanek/Moulsen that Hemsky barly scarped anything, and 50% retained... would all the work required to get that 4th rounder (?) be worth it at the cost of not getting a 3rd for Stempniak and/or a 2nd for Berra? At the end of the day, we got a 2nd and a 3rd rounder... if we chased a suitor for Cammalleri, we might have only got a 4th.
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
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02-23-2015, 02:20 AM
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#1148
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Nm
Last edited by sureLoss; 02-23-2015 at 02:42 AM.
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02-23-2015, 03:06 AM
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#1149
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn
I understand the theory of what's being said here and I don't doubt that some or all GMs adhere to this, but as a blanket policy, I think it's asinine. That's just me.
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Will be interested to see how your steadfast opinion effects your future dealing with the other 29 NHL GMS. Oh wait...
Regardless, several pages ago your schtick was that you "didn't get it" at all. Now you admit you get it, you just don't agree. That's progress.What you don't agree with is of no concern / consequence to me. Suggesting there was no rational understanding was annoying.
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02-23-2015, 03:11 AM
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#1150
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan
But if they lose Cammy and Glencross back to back years for nothing..........not sure it's the best strategy. We'll see.
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Not true at all and this was already discussed as well:
The situations are completely different. If we get no reasonable offers on Glencross at this deadline in no way is that a futile situation. Cammalleri's play last season after the deadline was inconsequential.
This season, if Glencross remains on the roster, we have the added benifit of his experience adding to a playoff push. It's a player contending teams are looking to potentially give up assets to have for a few months that we could benifit from for no acquisition cost.
Very different situations. If there are no serious offers on Glencross, keeping him for a playoff push is definitely a benefit to us.
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02-23-2015, 03:16 AM
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#1151
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NB
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Jimmy Krack Korn went trolling, baited CP with some BS and caught himself a haul. Jeepers.
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02-23-2015, 05:40 AM
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#1152
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: England
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Calle Jarnrok has been scratched by the Preds the last couple of game sand seems to have fallen out of favour, could be worth a look as part of a deal for Glencross, Nsh are on his list (apparently)
He is only 5' 11", so maybe too small as we have enough small forwards but still a good player.
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02-23-2015, 05:41 AM
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#1153
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina
I disagree - your reputation is formed based on how you deal with other GMs during any negotiation.
I imagine some GMs are known to be easier to push over, and other are known to hold the line more.
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Did a single poster on CP make this argument, ever, before Burke failed to secure anything for Cammalleri last year?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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02-23-2015, 05:54 AM
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#1154
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In the Sin Bin
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Did a single poster on CP make this argument, ever, before Burke failed to secure anything for Cammalleri last year?
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I don't know about CP posters, but Treliving himself said that GMs do look at that kind of stuff.
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02-23-2015, 06:30 AM
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#1155
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Upstate NY
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Mark Herrmann from Newsday:
Perhaps it's time for Islanders to trade for a veteran forward
Quote:
But the truth is, given the uncertainty over Frans Nielsen's health after a 4-0 loss to the Canucks at the Coliseum Sunday night, there is no guarantee the Islanders will have 12 healthy forwards to face the Coyotes Tuesday night.
Considering that there is no timetable for Kyle Okposo's return, that Mikhail Grabovski still is officially out indefinitely and that Casey Cizikas was traversing the corridor Sunday night in a protective boot, it might be time for the Islanders to think the unthinkable: about trading a prospect such as Griffin Reinhart or Ryan Pulock, both young defensemen.
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http://www.newsday.com/sports/column...ward-1.9966020
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02-23-2015, 06:35 AM
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#1156
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl
Yes, I know you were being sarcastic about that part. I'm referring more about your statement of you saying Stajan is piping hot garbage and have no idea how he is still in the NHL.
Fact is, there are plenty of bad & mediocre NHL players. That's just how it is. Also, there are a lot worse players in the NHL than Stajan, so you can have that same sentiment of a number of other guys.
But really, that Stajan statement was ridiculous and over the top and you are a troll like WRUCOS, only he trolls Backlund and you troll Stajan.
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No i dont troll Stajan, or anyone for that matter. I get enough of that in the summer off my 50 thousand dollar Ski Nautique. Judging by how much your trolling me, i really should be inviting you out fishing with me. You poor guy you
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02-23-2015, 07:00 AM
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#1157
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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Has Glencross said that he'd go to the Isles? If we could somehow pry Reinhart or Pulock from them it would be amazing. Those are the kinds of players this team needs moving forward...If those guys are available, I'd give what they ask for to get either of those guys.
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Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
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02-23-2015, 07:20 AM
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#1158
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
Has Glencross said that he'd go to the Isles? If we could somehow pry Reinhart or Pulock from them it would be amazing. Those are the kinds of players this team needs moving forward...If those guys are available, I'd give what they ask for to get either of those guys.
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Glencross is not even close to getting one of those D prospects. If the RoR rumors have legs that is the type of player they will move those guys for IMO. On the other hand Snow did move Nino for Clutterbuck
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02-23-2015, 07:22 AM
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#1159
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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It depends on what kind of return they'd want. If they want Glencross, that's great but we'd still have to add and that would be ok. If they want other pieces, we should really consider it. If snow trades one of those two for Glencross straight up, we politely accept the trade and offer to do business with them any time they want in the future.
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
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02-23-2015, 07:24 AM
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#1160
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the RR diner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
On the other hand Snow did move Nino for Clutterbuck
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So what you're saying is that the reputation of the GM makes you think you might be able to make a deal you wouldn't otherwise think you can make? Huh.
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Harry, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or... two cups of good, hot, black coffee.
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