I think Machiavelli said something along the lines of 'mercs are useful AF, but when you've completed your objective you should murder every last one of them- or else they're coming for you next.'
Spoiler!
'I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were.' - Niccolò Machiavelli
One of the most interesting things about all this is that there have barely been any shots fired in anger. I doubt Russian conscripts, police, and Wagner soldiers have any enthusiasm for engaging with deadly force against one another. The putsch has so far been a show of force and intimidation, combined with what I imagine is frantic back-channel scheming and negotiations, with most of the units on the ground happy to just stand back and watch.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
From everything I’ve read/listened to I think Prigozhin sounds worse than Putin. Everyone, myself included, thought regime change would be good, but there was always the possibility that someone worse and more unstable could take control.
From everything I’ve read/listened to I think Prigozhin sounds worse than Putin. Everyone, myself included, thought regime change would be good, but there was always the possibility that someone worse and more unstable could take control.
Putin is a nationalist, but Prighozin may be an outright fascist. The Wagner group was essentially who Putin hired to do dirty work he wouldn't do, now they may end up in charge.
I doubt Prigozhin is trying to usurp Putin. This is a power struggle between factions at the level below Putin. I expect whoever wins will continue to concede ultimate authority to Putin - though how much real control he exercises in the isolated state he has been in for the last couple years is questionable. Regardless, Prigozhin wants to gain power in a stable Russia. He needs Putin’s prestige for that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I think the ideal scenario is that Prigozhin shoots Putin and the bullet ricochets off some deeply embedded and critical medical implant and then comes back to hit Prigozhin right in the forehead. Something out of Itchy and Scratchy.
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If this is a play by Prigozhin to acquire power under Putin - maybe as the new head of the MOD - then the only way to interpret his comments about the validity of the war is setting the stage to justify Russia's abandonment of Ukraine. Without hearing from Putin directly though, it's impossible to say what he's planning to do.
I doubt Prigozhin is trying to usurp Putin. This is a power struggle between factions at the level below Putin. I expect whoever wins will continue to concede ultimate authority to Putin - though how much real control he exercises in the isolated state he has been in for the last couple years is questionable. Regardless, Prigozhin wants to gain power in a stable Russia. He needs Putin’s prestige for that.
You're probably right. I can't see Prigozhin actually wanting to be statesman that would have to worry about the tedious aspects of managing a country. I think he definitely wants control of the Russian military though which I doubt Putin would concede. If Prigozhin wins, it would likely mean him installing a puppet president.
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If this is a play by Prigozhin to acquire power under Putin - maybe as the new head of the MOD - then the only way to interpret his comments about the validity of the war is setting the stage to justify Russia's abandonment of Ukraine. Without hearing from Putin directly though, it's impossible to say what he's planning to do.
