Israel declares war on Hamas

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Any thoughts on how, if at all, the potential fall of Iran might slow or stop funding Hamas / Hezbolah?

I think it’s fantastic. Maybe Gaza can have leadership that isn’t terrorists and be able to form their own state.

Or am I way off here? You would think the free Palestine group would be over the moon. This might actually help to free Palestine from Hamas!

No as the Likud uses Palestinian resistance as their excuse to take Palestinian land and frighten Israelis into voting for them, what will likely happen is Israel will continue to kill Palestinians for even less reason, eventually both Palestinians and liberal Jews will leave the region and Israel will become a weird ever poorer orthodox state where almost no one will agree to pay taxes or serve in the military

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No as the Likud uses Palestinian resistance as their excuse to take Palestinian land and frighten Israelis into voting for them, what will likely happen is Israel will continue to kill Palestinians for even less reason, eventually both Palestinians and liberal Jews will leave the region and Israel will become a weird ever poorer orthodox state where almost no one will agree to pay taxes or serve in the military

No Hamas, no resistance? Or do you think some other group equally as bad will step in and take Hamas place?

Hopefully the Administration put in place is able to guide the Palestinians to a better future.

[afc wimbledon]

I think Bibi will invent a group if he has to, at this point nothing the Palestinians do will stop Israel taking everything, they will be blockaded shot and pushed off their land no matter what

[Language]

Can someone explain the phenomenon to me, as to why college campuses/downtown streets were flooded daily for 2+ years with chants of genocide during the Israel/Gaza war, but after 12,000-20,000 innocent civilizations in Iran are literally slaughtered by their own government in one weekend, those same people are deafly silent. I guess the Islamist/settler colonial indoctrination starts and ends with Israel. The fact that Iran was colonized by Arabs and is trying to break loose is largely lost on the kefiyah/mask wearing crowd.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

Can someone explain the phenomenon to me, as to why college campuses/downtown streets were flooded daily for 2+ years with chants of genocide during the Israel/Gaza war, but after 12,000-20,000 innocent civilizations in Iran are literally slaughtered by their own government in one weekend, those same people are deafly silent. I guess the Islamist/settler colonial indoctrination starts and ends with Israel. The fact that Iran was colonized by Arabs and is trying to break loose is largely lost on the kefiyah/mask wearing crowd.

Where are you protesting currently?

[CliffFletcher]

American and Israeli conservatives hate and oppose the Iranian regime. So to organize and passionately denounce the Iranian regime would be to make common cause with conservatives - which is anathema to campus activists. Negative polarization is a hell of a drug.

To the activist class, outrage over dead Muslim civilians depends entirely on who is doing the killing. Iranian massacres of civilians, the Yemeni Civil War, Shia vs Sunni sectarian bloodshed (which kills thousands a year) - all nothing-burgers to the "From the River to the Sea" crowd.

[Fuzz]

Or perhaps it's because no one is giving the Iranian regime financial and political support in Canada, so there is no one to protest? Complicated stuff.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Or perhaps it's because no one is giving the Iranian regime financial and political support in Canada, so there is no one to protest? Complicated stuff.

Yeah, as much as can be made about this being some nefarious choice, people in the particular regions generally protest power structures in those regions or closely aligned with them.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Where are you protesting currently?

I was at the protest a few days ago in Richmond Hill, as this is near where I live. Many Persians that live in this area were at Pro-Israel rallies, so I came to show my support too.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...test-9.7041240

Next question/point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

I was at the protest a few days ago in Richmond Hill, as this is near where I live. Many Persians that live in this area were at Pro-Israel rallies, so I came to show my support too.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...test-9.7041240

Next question/point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you were at a protest and are complaining that there are no protests?

[afc wimbledon]

I think there are a couple of factors that determine protests in these situations, it really helps to have a large external aggressor versus a smaller people, so Israel v Gaza, US v Vietnam, US v Iraq etc, it also helps if it is an easily understood conflict, Yemen and Sudan have been just as grim if not worse than Gaza but as civil wars of sorts the issues are complicated, all sides are equally unpleasant, there is no clear 'bully' and 'we' the west aren't involved, to a large degree I think people only protest when they see in some way or another that the 'west' is behind the issue, Israel is seen (rightly) as a US proxy so protesting against them makes sense, protesting against China's treatment of the Uyghurs or Turkeys treatment of the Kurds or Iran won't do a thing as those governments dont give a toss what we think

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Language

Can someone explain the phenomenon to me, as to why college campuses/downtown streets were flooded daily for 2+ years with chants of genocide during the Israel/Gaza war, but after 12,000-20,000 innocent civilizations in Iran are literally slaughtered by their own government in one weekend, those same people are deafly silent. I guess the Islamist/settler colonial indoctrination starts and ends with Israel. The fact that Iran was colonized by Arabs and is trying to break loose is largely lost on the kefiyah/mask wearing crowd.

No jews, no news.

[Fl4me5]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Or perhaps it's because no one is giving the Iranian regime financial and political support in Canada, so there is no one to protest? Complicated stuff.

And the veil is off.

Is was never about the humanity, the innocents, and the "genocide", but rather weaponizing Canadian policy and demonizing Israel.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think there are a couple of factors that determine protests in these situations, it really helps to have a large external aggressor versus a smaller people, so Israel v Gaza, US v Vietnam, US v Iraq etc, it also helps if it is an easily understood conflict, Yemen and Sudan have been just as grim if not worse than Gaza but as civil wars of sorts the issues are complicated, all sides are equally unpleasant, there is no clear 'bully' and 'we' the west aren't involved, to a large degree I think people only protest when they see in some way or another that the 'west' is behind the issue, Israel is seen (rightly) as a US proxy so protesting against them makes sense, protesting against China's treatment of the Uyghurs or Turkeys treatment of the Kurds or Iran won't do a thing as those governments dont give a toss what we think

To expand on your overall point, I think the only reason it is focused on "the west" is because essentially the point of protesting is to encourage change in our government through public pressure. People protesting to get Iran's government to do something different is irrelevant.

When people are protesting Israel's treatment of the people of Gaza, it is to get our government to do something, to apply pressure, usually through diplomatic or economic channels. When there were mass protests against apartheid, it was to force our governments to apply pressure to South Africa to force their governments to change. We don't expect the government of any foreign country to change any stance based on people marching on our streets, they change when they are cut off from trade or other diplomatic measures.

Canada already applies those pressures to Iran, the vast majority of Canadians can agree that we are doing what we can, short of military intervention, in order to stop the bloodshed. Protesting to change Canada's stance doesn't make much sense since we don't need our stance to change. But if we were fully trading with Iran, providing aid packages, running joint military operations - you can be almost 100% assured there would have been mass protests over their latest killing spree.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

And the veil is off.



Is was never about the humanity, the innocents, and the "genocide", but rather weaponizing Canadian policy and demonizing Israel.

Wow, Fuzz has been foiled.

Checkmate Atheists.

[TheIronMaiden]

My overly simplistic take is that online discourse in inspired by conflict. If there was a sizeable difference of opinion on the nature the Iranian protests, and slaughtering of protesters we would have a thread just as long as this.

Ultimately there is no one from CP to convince. We agree that the Iranian Government are committing crimes against humanity, and we all mourn for the people who are being impacted. There isn't really a debate to be had, or points to be made and won.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Language

I was at the protest a few days ago in Richmond Hill, as this is near where I live. Many Persians that live in this area were at Pro-Israel rallies, so I came to show my support too.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...test-9.7041240

Next question/point?

Were there any counterprotesting nutjob, unhinged, fanatical sadistic Iranians or indeed anyone else there protesting their right to kill innocents? That the killings were acceptable?

Or is this different in that there's common concensus that the deliberate mass murder of thousands of innocents is just pure evil.

Intriguing that you would make the effort to attend a protest against the mass murder of thousands of innocent civilians yet seem to be triggered by other protests against the mass murder of innocent civilians. What's the difference for you?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

And the veil is off.

Is was never about the humanity, the innocents, and the "genocide", but rather weaponizing Canadian policy and demonizing Israel.

No, it really is about discussing change where you can make it. You can't change the mind of anyone who finds the Iranian regime awesome, because those people are rare. It's clearly not rare to come upon people who feel supporting Israel is the right thing to do, despite the reprehensible behaviours and beliefs of the governing regime. Because Israel has support for killing children and stealing land among some Canadians, there is some room for improvement.


You can make up whatever stuff you want in your head and pretend you've Scooby-Doo'd, me, but pretending made up things are real is why we have these issues in the first place. So maybe stick with explanations that actually make sense, because the world is far more complicated than This good, That bad.

[PepsiFree]

Supporting genocide must totally break your brain because between F74MZZSZ or whatever and Language these have to be the dumbest “gotchya” attempts I have seen in quite some time.

First guy chimes in asking “where are the protests?” talking about the death toll. Reveals he was actually at a protest but didn’t go because he actually cared about the death toll or what the protest was trying to protest, just went because his neighbours were going.

Next guy chimes in pretending a “veil” has been lifted because he realized that protests usually have some action or change they’re trying to cause and the idea that they aren’t strictly “aimless people gathering to say bad thing bad together” is somehow… bad? lol

Crazy stuff.

[Fuzz]

Telling they posted in this thread, and not the Iran one. Gee, who only cares about one thing?