Another great film from Christopher Nolan. The acting was superb and the story was solid. It was worth the wait.
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This movie went exactly as I feared after watching the trailers. I think the best way for me to describe this one is "vapid". The first two movies were fantastic for two reasons: First, they were set in a realistic world, and second, the villains were well developed, both in their own characters and in their conflicts with Batman. For all their efforts, I never got the impression that Bane was anything more than a 'roided up thug while his conflict with Batman was as deep as a bottle cap. Ras al Ghul and Joker were far superior foils.
On Harvey Dent:
Spoiler!
Ridiculously over the top. "Harvey Dent Day isn't one of our oldest holidays, but it is one of our most important"? WTF? Gordon's plans to tell the truth eight years later, for no apparent reason. He changes his mind for no apparent reason. Silly. Bane gets the letter, reveals to the world the truth. The needed to reveal Two Face as the bad guy and Batman as the good to achieve the "Dark Knight Rises" part, but man, they fumbled it.
On lost realism:
Spoiler!
This is where the movie utterly fell down for me. The entire siege of Gotham was completely unrealistic, right up to the point where the outside authorities do absolutely nothing about it. 12 million people have apparently descended into anarchy and other than the ridiculous court scenes, it doesn't seem life has changed much for anyone but the important characters.
I did, however, get a good chuckle out of "So you choose Death ...by exile!" line.
Others loved it, but I HATED the football stadium scene. Both because it was a prime example of the "bigger 'splosions makes for a better story" fallacy, and because it was unrealistic. The football player doesn't realize the world is collapsing below his feet? The stadium itself is perfectly untouched? The crowd simply stops and stares for the most part? Brutal.
Finally, you invent a plot device that has a five-month timer, after which it will become too unstable and blow up. And yet, they can somehow bounce the damn thing around like a basketball within minutes of boom time (as if they'd know precisely when) without consequence? That entire "months to detonate" bit should have just been written out for how worthless it was, given the end game was Talia hitting the trigger instead.
Honestly, this one fell down as badly as Spiderman 3 and Matrix Revolutions did.
(un)fortunately...
Spoiler!
The setup for more sequels was so obvious that they have a chance to redeem themselves.
A few thoughts:
On Harvey Dent
Spoiler!
They praised Dent like a hero, it was his death that got the Organized Crime bill past, which eradicated the mob from Gotham. The mob ran the city for decades, yes having a 'holiday' seems over the top. But it's not like it's unprecedented in the United States to do something like this (Martin Luther King Day comes to mind, not to say that day's not deserving or that King = Dent, just that it happens). As for Gordon wanting to tell the truth for "no good reason" I'd have to disagree. I would think losing your family because of the lie would be more than enough reason to tell the truth to try and get them back, the question becomes, does he do it at the cost of the city? Hence the speech being written and him being tormented on giving it or not.
On Realism
Spoiler!
I think you answered your own question when you state that it's complete anarchy but everything seems normal. Well if everything seems normal it's not anarchy. Anarchy isn't what Bane is going for, he's going for a slow death, suffering, but the people have hope they will survive. They live in fear, but that fear keeps everyone in line. Unless you're the 1% you don't need to be worried about the thugs in the street, you just put your head down, get your supplies and live your life.
As for the stadium, I think it's totally realistic that they could cause an explosion or series of explosions and the football player (Hines Ward) not realize it. It's opening kickoff and the place is going nuts. It's probably extremely loud. I've never played football, but I wouldn't imagine those helmets allow the greatest sound in them either. As for the field being destroyed and nothing else. It's possible to rig the explosions to do just that. For example, in real life they rigged up a series of explosions on top of the field at Hines Field without blowing up the stadium or damaging the seats. This was done for a summer blockbuster this year . Remember, Bane wants people to believe he's a liberator, giving them hope, that yes someone had the trigger but not him, someone in Gotham, in the stands even. He wants the people alive, their attention, and wants Batman to think he can save them when Bane thinks he cannot.
Lastly the "timer". They calculated when the thing would go off. Yes the timer on the bomb was kind of stupid. I'm not a nuclear physicist but I'd assume that you could do the math to figure out an approximation as to when the core would detonate due to instability. I mean they made a fusion reactor why not be able to calculate how the fusion works, decays, etc? As for the fragility of the casing, I just assumed that the casing would be durable, it looked like it would need more than a bump to make it explode. While it was a bomb, it wasn't designed to be a bomb, it was designed to be an energy source, thus I'd assume it's casing would be stronger to withstand things such as an earthquake or tornado. Then again, the flood would short it out (but perhaps that also has to do with the water.
I don't have all the answers, but I think I have some decent theories regarding your criticisms (which are fair, don't get me wrong).
A few things that I picked up that I liked after seeing it twice now.
Spoiler!
1. I liked Bane's voice, there's something sophisticated about it, even though it's mechanical.
2. Anne Hathaway in the catsuit was amazing. That once scene where she's on the bike and goes to shoot an opening in the tunnel, and she arches her back and sticks her butt in the air. It made me feel fuzzy in my nether regions.
3. The Talia al Gul twist was great. I kicked myself for not seeing it the first time. I paid extra attention the second time seeing it to see if the twist did make sense. It does, right down to Bruce assuming the child is Bane. He comes to that realization after the man taking care of him actually mentions Bane in relation to Talia. In addition, Bane tells Bruce that he was a man before seeing the light of day, thus he couldn't have been the child. Clever writing.
4. Almost as clever as having Talia be the one that confirms if the bomb is on a specific truck. First time watching the film I assumed they moved the bomb. Then I realized they "determine" the bomb is on the truck because Talia told them. A very minor detail that causes a major problem for the protagonists.
5. Last, I rolled my eyes and sighed loudly in the theatre last night when John Blake's legal name was determined to be "Robin". But, now I kind of like it. An ongoing theme of the whole series was wearing a mask. Robin did that, he used a different name in stead of wearing a mask (because he learned too late to hide the anger?) He was an orphan, taken under the wing of Batman, knows his true identity, was a ward of the boarding house funded by Bruce Wayne. There actually were a number of parallels to the comics for Robin. However, there were enough changes to make it a neat little between the lines nod, rather than "Holy Metal Batman!"
So yeah, the movie, it was alright I guess I'll give it my worst review yet, seven thumbs up.
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the first movie of the trilogy was ok, the second was easily one of the most entertaining films in the past decade, so not overly surprised that this failed to meet, at least my, expectations.
i actually think they over complicated the plot to the point where it wasn't clear with regards to who was doing what and why. also, i found bane's dialogue more or less incomprehensible for the first half of the film..
What a movie! Is Anne Hathaway always this good of an actor or was it Nolan? Awesome stuff and her on the batbike in spandex is amazing!
Kinda stupid but for the first 10 minutes i was looking at the exit doors a few times.
hahaha. after the movie when we were leaving the Winnipeg Imax, i saw this guy just leave the elevator, which is on the top floor, so i leapt to wedge my hand into the closing door and yelled "I'm Batman". umm I thought the elevator was empty but there were 2 older couples in there, who laughed at me all the way down to the parkade...
What a movie! Is Anne Hathaway always this good of an actor or was it Nolan? Awesome stuff and her on the batbike in spandex is amazing!
She was nominated for an Oscar for Rachel Getting Married a few years ago.
Looking at her IMDB page, I realize that Dark Knight Rises is only the second movie she's been in that I've actually seen -- the other is Get Smart (which wasn't Oscar worthy). Actually, I think I might have watched Alice in Wonderland on a plane, but I might have that mixed up with another Tim Burton movie with Johnny Depp as a weirdo.
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My one complaint about the trilogy as a whole is they filmed each movie in a different city (or cities) so every movie looks extremely different from each other. From Batman Begins to The Dark Knight I can understand because he is cleaning the streets and a lot of time is spent in the crappy parts of Gotham, but going from Dark Knight to Rises the city looks nothing alike.
It doesn't ruin the trilogy for me, but it really bugs me more than I'd like.
On Harvey Dent:
Ridiculously over the top. "Harvey Dent Day isn't one of our oldest holidays, but it is one of our most important"? WTF? Gordon's plans to tell the truth eight years later, for no apparent reason. He changes his mind for no apparent reason. Silly. Bane gets the letter, reveals to the world the truth. The needed to reveal Two Face as the bad guy and Batman as the good to achieve the "Dark Knight Rises" part, but man, they fumbled it.
Isn't Gordon going to retire and that is why he is going to tell the truth? Isn't his resignation in the speech that Bane reads and asks people if they accept his resignation?
You shoudl probably wrap that in spoiler tags for the inevitable person who comes in and whines about ruining plot points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy
Spoiler!
Isn't Gordon going to retire and that is why he is going to tell the truth? Isn't his resignation in the speech that Bane reads and asks people if they accept his resignation?
Spoiler!
It is revealed early in the movie that the mayor plans to replace/fire Gordon in the spring. That implied to me that he wasn't planning on going anywhere, though I may have missed a later statement.
Last edited by Resolute 14; 07-22-2012 at 08:53 AM.
I think this is the real problem with the Dent thing for me: His death led to the bill that eliminated the mob. Or, put another way, eradicated the decay and rot that plagued Gotham. They eliminated the need for the League of Shadows to continue their compaign against the city five minutes into the movie, making the central plot meaningless.
On Gotham:
Spoiler!
That is exactly what bothered me about the seige. You have 12 million people basically thrust into unemployment. You've done massive damage to critical infrastructure, something that would have a devastating effect on the economy of Gotham, but also the rest of the US. And despite this, one expects the normal people to just sit in their homes and wait it out? No, I don't think so. You would see a breakdown of society in that case, regardless of the roving thugs and their nuke. The entire five month timeline was unrealistic to the point of being absurd. I especially liked how 3000 cops emerged from spending five months under ground healthy, clean shaven and wearing clean, pressed uniforms.
I think the timing of the seige would have worked much better if lasted only a few days. Have Bane take Batman out those few months ahead of the taking of Gotham so that he can do his "escape the tunnel" routine, then arrive in the nick of time. You could even work it that Batman fails to escape before the seige, but it is seeing the immediate suffering that brings him the strength to make it out.
I think this is the real problem with the Dent thing for me: His death led to the bill that eliminated the mob. Or, put another way, eradicated the decay and rot that plagued Gotham. They eliminated the need for the League of Shadows to continue their compaign against the city five minutes into the movie, making the central plot meaningless.
On Gotham:
Spoiler!
That is exactly what bothered me about the seige. You have 12 million people basically thrust into unemployment. You've done massive damage to critical infrastructure, something that would have a devastating effect on the economy of Gotham, but also the rest of the US. And despite this, one expects the normal people to just sit in their homes and wait it out? No, I don't think so. You would see a breakdown of society in that case, regardless of the roving thugs and their nuke. The entire five month timeline was unrealistic to the point of being absurd. I especially liked how 3000 cops emerged from spending five months under ground healthy, clean shaven and wearing clean, pressed uniforms.
I think the timing of the seige would have worked much better if lasted only a few days. Have Bane take Batman out those few months ahead of the taking of Gotham so that he can do his "escape the tunnel" routine, then arrive in the nick of time. You could even work it that Batman fails to escape before the seige, but it is seeing the immediate suffering that brings him the strength to make it out.
Dent
Spoiler!
While the need to destroy Gotham is gone, I don't think that's why Bane and Talia/Miranda are on their mission. It's revenge for her father's death. He wanted to destroy Gotham because of the decay, was killed in the process, the fact that Gotham went to a DENT-ist (I'm sorry that's a horrible pun, but I love puns) and got the decay fixed doesn't change their desires to destroy the city.
Gotham
Spoiler!
Bystander effect? You have 12 million people waiting for someone to do something. The more people there are the less likely they are to act? Throw in Bane's militia, and the government not knowing what to do, and you could get what happened. I'll agree on the cops that were clean shaven. Nolan is usually good with details (as I pointed out in my previous post on some of the other plot lines) which is surprising that he'd miss that. Scruffy cops, and they should have had moles sneak them sunglasses or something. I dunno, but I'll give you that point, although it's not major enough to ruin the movie for me.
Perhaps a seige lasting a few days would have worked, but Bruce needed to heal and get back into shape. Hence the longer time frame.
All in all I liked the movie, and can see past some of it's faults. While yes, I am a Batman fan boy, I don't take people having an opposing viewpoint or not being pleased with the movie personally.
If I like a movie I will make an attempt to explain plot holes that weren't directly addressed in the movie. So, if you don't take my logical leaps that's cool.
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My one complaint about the trilogy as a whole is they filmed each movie in a different city (or cities) so every movie looks extremely different from each other. From Batman Begins to The Dark Knight I can understand because he is cleaning the streets and a lot of time is spent in the crappy parts of Gotham, but going from Dark Knight to Rises the city looks nothing alike.
It doesn't ruin the trilogy for me, but it really bugs me more than I'd like.
was on purpose
they had filmed everywhere in Chicago for TDK, and wanted Gotham to feel like it could be any city and not a specific one (Chicago/NY etc.)
. Remember, Bane wants people to believe he's a liberator, giving them hope, that yes someone had the trigger but not him, someone in Gotham, in the stands even. He wants the people alive, their attention, and wants Batman to think he can save them when Bane thinks he cannot.
