[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Royle9

The point is the difference in value between the 30th pick and the 35th pick is not much at all.

Every team CGY was negotiating with had to include a 1st and there were other teams with far better odds of that first being in the 15-20 range than 25-32nd.

The value between 15th pick and 30th pick is substantial, like almost never gets moved levels of capital.

I’d much rather the 15th pick than 30th & 60th but maybe it’s just me.


Now if they flipped White cloud into a late 1st or early 2nd+ then it’s a home run, but that remains to be seen and probably unlikely.

15th pick wasnt available though

[SuperMatt18]

I do think there is the argument that you just move him for as high a pick as possible even if it's just as a rental.

But there is no guarantee to that either, that team makes the conference finals and now you have a late first and don't have all the extras either.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

TBF I always try to think of picks as overall numbers just to note that the constant talk off getting first rounders is somewhat less meaningful when you consider where that pick is from a contender.

This is true. But it's not true to say that a late 1st is no better than a 2nd. The 1st is guaranteed to be earlier than any 2nd, and there's no certainty about where in the range from 33 to 64 that 2nd might end up.

[OILFAN #81]

I mentioned a few days ago that SJ was in but would only go in for a signed Andersson and it seemed it was only Vegas that he was interested in. Not surprised he went to Vegas at all. I’m sure he will re-sign there.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Vegas could have got him free in the summer...they paid this for one run

I honestly don’t think they care.
They’re trying to win a cup in the next few years and have some good pieces to do that.

Anyone they draft with late 1sts and 2nds won’t help them for at least 2-3 years+

I can’t see how this is a bad move for them, they’re gambling with house money.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I will add, and I know that CGY has done a pretty poor job in the PR department thanks to Donny Maloney, but I don’t believe they’ll be flipping Whitecloud.

It would look even more silly than the rebiggle incident to post chatter with Whitecloud about his excitement to join CGY and be part of what they “trying to do up here” and how he can’t wait to be a Flame, to turn around and trade him in a few weeks.

That would be pretty cut throat, and we know how much they are about feelings up here (like it or hate it).

It would be an absolute grand slam to flip him for another 1st for SURE but I don’t see it happening. What I do hope Craig takes from this, now that he’s been burned once again at crunch time, is that he capitalizes on the Coleman and Kadri markets NOW and not sit idle and waste any more chances of a 3 peat on lack of working kindly with UFA destination talks.

And don’t kid yourselves, I give him until after the Olympics to extend in VGK.
He’s already come out in the summer and said Vegas would be a place for him long term.

It’s still a “meh” trade to me, the only positive I’ll take for now is it should help us get some more “L’s” but I personally can’t call it a win for CGY with the conditions on the picks.

Very late 1st is essentially a 2nd and a late 2nd a 3rd at the end of the day.
Yea not bad for a “rental” but we should all know that’s not really what it is, he rug pulled at the 11th hour and Craig was forced to pivot.

Though if I’m being honest I had a hard time believing he would sign long term in Boston, I don’t see them competing for a cup any time soon.

There is likely more to the story than we will ever know. But it is true leverage was lost. Something I hope Conroy has learned from and rectifies by moving Coleman this year and not next.

The Fan 960 Seravalli interview about today's Ras trade was quite spicy when they discussed how the week unfolded. He called LV the Evil Empire and was quite cynical about how things played out this week with reference to Marner landing in LV in a similar fashion.

He gave very high odds that LV will have extension signed for Ras very soon.

Also mentioned that Conroy gave Kings permission to talk contract extension as well as Bruins yet Ras' agent never even bothered to discuss with Kings. Just nixed any chance of extension this morning.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Royle9

The point is the difference in value between the 30th pick and the 35th pick is not much at all.

Every team CGY was negotiating with had to include a 1st and there were other teams with far better odds of that first being in the 15-20 range than 25-32nd.

It appears that those particular teams were only willing to part with their 1st if Andersson would sign an extension. He wouldn't. Those deals were never on offer under these circumstances.

And the difference between the 30th pick and the 64th pick is very large indeed. The team that holds the 35th pick is really bad and is not going to be trading it for immediate help, so there's not much point in making that comparison.

[Matty81]

I think the poll can't capture the sentiment of most fans.

Is it decent value for a UFA. Yes it is.

But many are still disappointed in the return because they had hoped he would sign an extension somewhere and we wouldnt get hosed again. So for me, I voted slightly disappointed, but thats not because I think the flames did badly in the situation. Its because I am disappointed they find themselves in this situation again at all.

100% his right to do it, but that doesnt mean it doesnt suck for the flames and their fans to lose the additional prime asset. No he didn't owe it to the franchise or anything, but flames fans also dont need to love it either that we got Hanifined again.

[sureLoss]

wrong thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Royle9

The point is the difference in value between the 30th pick and the 35th pick is not much at all.

Every team CGY was negotiating with had to include a 1st and there were other teams with far better odds of that first being in the 15-20 range than 25-32nd.

The value between 15th pick and 30th pick is substantial, like almost never gets moved levels of capital.

I’d much rather the 15th pick than 30th & 60th but maybe it’s just me.


Now if they flipped White cloud into a late 1st or early 2nd+ then it’s a home run, but that remains to be seen and probably unlikely.

Except all those other teams needed an extension. Who knows where Vegas will be in 2027. Two years ago they drafted 19th. If the season ended now they’d draft 25th, not 30th. They are only 2 points better than Boston, they are behind Dallas and Detroit.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by dino7c

15th pick wasnt available though

Seravalli or Friedman (cant remember which one) said the Toronto pick Bruin's had was not on the table.

[tkflames]

If we were the 4th best team in the conference and 8th best overall and gave up this package for 35 games + playoffs of Rasmus Andersson, I would lose my mind at how dumb this team was....

I wanted more too, but this is a massive gamble for Vegas. It's cup or nothing as the 8th best horse with Olympic Risk and Injury Risk all in play. The only thing they have going for them is being in the weakest division which might get them to round 3.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I think the poll can't capture the sentiment of most fans.

Is it decent value for a UFA. Yes it is.

But many are still disappointed in the return because they had hoped he would sign an extension somewhere and we wouldnt get hosed again. So for me, I voted slightly disappointed, but thats not because I think the flames did badly in the situation. Its because I am disappointed they find themselves in this situation again at all.

100% his right to do it, but that doesnt mean it doesnt suck for the flames and their fans to lose the additional prime asset. No he didn't owe it to the franchise or anything, but flames fans also dont need to love it either that we got Hanifined again.

To be clear on my position, I am not disappointed in Rasmus. He has every right to test free agency.

I am more frustrated the Flames didn't learn from their mistake with Hanifin.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by dino7c

15th pick wasnt available though

Out of all the teams interested I’d wager good money today that VGK goes further than every single one of them.

A lot of you are banking on VGK some how faltering in the next few years, I just don’t see it happening, they won’t let it.

I hope I’m wrong, I’d love for Rasmus to not extend and VGK to pull the rare Winnipeg move next year, but I wouldn’t bet on that outcome.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I think the poll can't capture the sentiment of most fans.

Is it decent value for a UFA. Yes it is.

But many are still disappointed in the return because they had hoped he would sign an extension somewhere and we wouldnt get hosed again. So for me, I voted slightly disappointed, but thats not because I think the flames did badly in the situation. Its because I am disappointed they find themselves in this situation again at all.

100% his right to do it, but that doesnt mean it doesnt suck for the flames and their fans to lose the additional prime asset. No he didn't owe it to the franchise or anything, but flames fans also dont need to love it either that we got Hanifined again.

That's fair.

But we should remember that Hanifin, before the trade, said he was only interested in signing in Tampa. Vegas wasn't even on his radar until they traded for him; then they talked him into it.

If Andersson plays out the year in Vegas and then ditches them to sign with the highest bidder as a UFA, will that make the trade better or worse? For me it makes absolutely no difference, because the Flames get the same assets back regardless. If Vegas doesn't re-sign Andersson, they'll spend that money to improve their team in some other way and the picks the Flames got will be worth much the same.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Seravalli or Friedman (cant remember which one) said the Toronto pick Bruin's had was not on the table.

And he wouldnt extend there anyway

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by traptor

Not flipping Whitecloud is a big L

No, not flipping Pachel or Hanley will be the big L. If the right offer comes along for Whitecloud (an overpay), then pull the trigger. If not, focus on moving the other two for middling draft picks and sit on Whitecloud for another year while Parekh and Brzustewicz become regulars. Whitecloud can be dealt at any time, but his contract status and ability to comfortably play on the second pairing buy the Flames a little more development time for their young blueline.

The Flames really made a poor calculation when the allowed Solovyov to get plucked on waivers instead of exposing Miromanov. The Flames would be a better position having him, Kuz, Parekh, and Brz on the back-end IMO. Some better complimentary pieces there. Miromanov was a complete whiff from day one and the team should have recognized that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Out of all the teams interested I’d wager good money today that VGK goes further than every single one of them.

But why does it matter, if every one of those offers was conditional on an extension that the player was never going to sign?

[Fan69]

Good trade.
No random 7th rounder 3 years out? Bad trade.


I think Wiebe might be a little undersold here. I would put him around a Jamieson level of player in our system; third rounder. Whitecloud a good 4 -5 guy. A first possible second first but probably a second.

Yes it blows its Vegas.

However 27 draft is looking like a gooder.
Its possible that picking up Whitecloud is what allows the borderline guys to be traded. Wouldn’t expect more than a 4th or later.
Get first this year for Coleman it looks like a good year to me. Maybe Hanley or Pachal get something too many bodies on defence.

Overall B+ considering we got boned again

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Out of all the teams interested I’d wager good money today that VGK goes further than every single one of them.

A lot of you are banking on VGK some how faltering in the next few years, I just don’t see it happening, they won’t let it.

I hope I’m wrong, I’d love for Rasmus to not extend and VGK to pull the rare Winnipeg move next year, but I wouldn’t bet on that outcome.

All the teams he wouldnt sign with?