[Rumour] LeBrun: As of right now, sounds like Andersson only wants to sign extension with VGK

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You are moving the goal posts
No one said he was elite

Trying to justify that Rasmus Andersson is somewhere between the 65th and 128th best dman in the NHL (second pairing) would take incredible mental gymnastics.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Parekh is absolutely worth more than Johnston. And nobody suddenly shops around a player just because one team wants him included in a trade. Some of y’all make zero sense.

But nobody anywhere has suggested that Dallas wants to shop Johnston, either? It's just CP invention, we're the ones that want a player included in a trade (as fans on CP). Hence the counter of IF Johnston was to be moved (and it makes less than zero sense for them to do so with his age, his position and where he's trending and a recent long term deal) Dallas would be looking at Parekh and not much else as a starting point.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by HitterD

There you go banging the drum about Andersson being a 2nd pairing dman again, in spite of the fact he was top 20 in ice time for defenseman. Rinse and repeat

Mike Matheson was 7th in the NHL. Forsling was 39th. Time on ice doesn't tell you how good a player is.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You are moving the goal posts
No one said he was elite

Just ignore these guys and add them to your ignore list. Too much oxygen is being consuming arguing about pointless subjects and they have no interest in listening to others viewpoints. Wish they could be banned so we can have intelligent posts which lead to interesting discussion but unfortunately people are engaging with these guys and clogging up threads with garbage.

Unfortunately when people reply I still see their posts as they are being replied to. Wish instead of engaging, hit ignore and focus on engaging with posters who while may have different views, will explain reasoning for their positions instead of arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You are moving the goal posts
No one said he was elite

I do not believe he is a top pairing on a good team.

On Florida he would be their 4th best dman. You could make an argument he would be the #3 dman in Edmonton, a team with trash depth.

Sorry, in MY opinion, he is a second pairing dman.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I do not believe he is a top pairing on a good team.

On Florida he would be their 4th best dman. You could make an argument he would be the #3 dman in Edmonton, a team with trash depth.

Sorry, in MY opinion, he is a second pairing dman.

I think it’s time for you to quit drinking, call a cab, and go home.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I do not believe he is a top pairing on a good team.

On Florida he would be their 4th best dman. You could make an argument he would be the #3 dman in Edmonton, a team with trash depth.

Sorry, in MY opinion, he but is a second pairing dman.

Ok that can be your opinion but the facts show he is a first pairing dman
Now we can discuss if he would be on a contending team but that’s not what you originally said. You called him a second pairing dman. Thats not what he is.

Of course you can have opinions that ignore facts if you want.

But then don’t get frustrated when people challenge you when you constantly ignore facts that run counter to things you stubbornly hold to be true

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok that can be your opinion but the facts show he is a first pairing dman
Now we can discuss if he would be on a contending team but that’s not what you originally said. You called him a second pairing dman. Thats not what he is.

Of course you can have opinions that ignore facts if you want.

But then don’t get frustrated when people challenge you when you constantly ignore facts that run counter to things you stubbornly hold to be true

I am also not the only person who holds this opinion. Rhett, Pinder and Boomer have called him a 2nd liner several times this off season.

I am not frustrated, I am saying as fans we tend to be biased for our players. I know he gets lots of ice time.

Let me ask you this, is Kadri a 1st line center? Is Zary or Pospisal or whoever is playing winger on that line a 1st line winger? Sometimes players play ahead of where they should be slotted, because of poor top line talent on the team.

[jayswin]

I don't think Andersson would end up being a first pairing D-man on a contending team if that's where we trade him. That is not drunk talk, it's the reality of the wealth that a contending team has in players. It's why they'll pay a premium for a 1st line forward from a non playoff team and make them a second line player on their playoff run. The chances of Andersson going to a contender and being a top line D-man is pretty small, imo. That's not a knock on him at all, btw.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I am also not the only person who holds this opinion. Rhett, Pinder and Boomer have called him a 2nd liner several times this off season.

I am not frustrated, I am saying as fans we tend to be biased for our players. I know he gets lots of ice time.

Let me ask you this, is Kadri a 1st line center? Is Zary or Pospisal or whoever is playing winger on that line a 1st line winger? Sometimes players play ahead of where they should be slotted, because of poor top line talent on the team.

If they play the majority of their minutes in that position then yes they are by definition.

How good they are is a different story

It’s just funny when you accuse others of being biased while failing to recognize your own. And that you reference others and data that only supports your opinion while totally disregarding information that counters it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't think Andersson would end up being a first pairing D-man on a contending team if that's where we trade him. That is not drunk talk, it's the reality of the wealth that a contending team has in players. It's why they'll pay a premium for a 1st line forward from a non playoff team and make them a second line player on their playoff run. The chances of Andersson going to a contender and being a top line D-man is pretty small, imo. That's not a knock on him at all, btw.

That’s also different from what he originally said
I suspect on a good team he’s a #2 with a great partner or the key part of a second pairing as a #3

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That’s also different from what he originally said
I suspect on a good team he’s a #2 with a great partner or the key part of a second pairing as a #3

Im my defense, I came in late and just haphazardly responded to the last couple posts.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But nobody anywhere has suggested that Dallas wants to shop Johnston, either? It's just CP invention, we're the ones that want a player included in a trade (as fans on CP). Hence the counter of IF Johnston was to be moved (and it makes less than zero sense for them to do so with his age, his position and where he's trending and a recent long term deal) Dallas would be looking at Parekh and not much else as a starting point.

Cool man, that all sounds good, but can you walk me through how any of this relates to my post or what I was responding to?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Just because someone plays a lot does not make them elite. He played so much because we didn't have a ton of defensive depth, and had no choice.

And he played poorly, the lowest plus minus in the league. And we were not even that poor of a plus/minus team.

2nd pairing on a good team, sorry.

Still wrong.

He's been playing 1st pair minutes for ~5 seasons now. His biggest average TOI season was actually 2022-23 with all of Hanifin, Weegar, Tanev, Zadorov and that season he put up 11 more points than Hanifin (top D points and #6 on the roster). The team (and a couple of players in particular) were not having a good season but Andersson was.

Anyway, +/- is still a garbage stat that weak analysis comes from. If you want to use it as an indicator, sure, but then you have to dig deeper to understand and try to draw conclusions.

If you dig into it at all... Andersson's +/- largely comes down to baring the brunt of playing a shutdown role against other team's top lines with very little support. The forwards he has the largest shared TOI with are Backlund and Coleman and both of their scoring took a step back this year while the group of them were being deployed against the other team's top lines.

Also, when you look at his fancy stats, this last season was a massive departure from the rest of his career for starts. Andersson was not getting offensive zone starts anymore and instead was getting a pile of defensive zone starts. So not only are they playing against the other team's top lines but they are doing so in the defensive zone.

Simply put: Playing a shutdown role with a shutdown line on a low scoring team is not going to help your +/- stat. When the team got punished in games, Andersson would take the brunt of it in this one silly stat.

Oct 28 @VGK, -3 (L 5-0)
Dec 8 @DAL, -4 (L 6-2)
Feb 4 @TOR, -3 (L 6-3)
...

Dude was a punching bag that the Flames threw out to get beat on by the best scorers in the NHL with a very green D partner. When the team needed to tighten up the bench, Andersson just kept putting up bigger minutes.

28 minutes against the Sens
27 minutes against the Bruins, Wild, NYI, 'Canes
26 minutes against Canucks, NYI, Sabres, Blues, Avs

In the end, no, Andersson is not elite. He is a 28 year old top pair RHS defender who is on an amazing one year contract, can be extended for 8 more years. About 7 or 8 teams need this asset and only one is available.

Trying to pretend that he is less than that just makes one look foolish.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Still wrong.

He's been playing 1st pair minutes for ~5 seasons now. His biggest average TOI season was actually 2022-23 with all of Hanifin, Weegar, Tanev, Zadorov and that season he put up 11 more points than Hanifin (top D points and #6 on the roster). The team (and a couple of players in particular) were not having a good season but Andersson was.

Anyway, +/- is still a garbage stat that weak analysis comes from. If you want to use it as an indicator, sure, but then you have to dig deeper to understand and try to draw conclusions.

If you dig into it at all... Andersson's +/- largely comes down to baring the brunt of playing a shutdown role against other team's top lines with very little support. The forwards he has the largest shared TOI with are Backlund and Coleman and both of their scoring took a step back this year while the group of them were being deployed against the other team's top lines.

Also, when you look at his fancy stats, this last season was a massive departure from the rest of his career for starts. Andersson was not getting offensive zone starts anymore and instead was getting a pile of defensive zone starts. So not only are they playing against the other team's top lines but they are doing so in the defensive zone.

Simply put: Playing a shutdown role with a shutdown line on a low scoring team is not going to help your +/- stat. When the team got punished in games, Andersson would take the brunt of it in this one silly stat.

Oct 28 @VGK, -3 (L 5-0)
Dec 8 @DAL, -4 (L 6-2)
Feb 4 @TOR, -3 (L 6-3)
...

Dude was a punching bag that the Flames threw out to get beat on by the best scorers in the NHL with a very green D partner. When the team needed to tighten up the bench, Andersson just kept putting up bigger minutes.

28 minutes against the Sens
27 minutes against the Bruins, Wild, NYI, 'Canes
26 minutes against Canucks, NYI, Sabres, Blues, Avs

In the end, no, Andersson is not elite. He is a 28 year old top pair RHS defender who is on an amazing one year contract, can be extended for 8 more years. About 7 or 8 teams need this asset and only one is available.

Trying to pretend that he is less than that just makes one look foolish.

all im seeing is that they should've traded him 2 years ago.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Still wrong.

He's been playing 1st pair minutes for ~5 seasons now. His biggest average TOI season was actually 2022-23 with all of Hanifin, Weegar, Tanev, Zadorov and that season he put up 11 more points than Hanifin (top D points and #6 on the roster). The team (and a couple of players in particular) were not having a good season but Andersson was.

Anyway, +/- is still a garbage stat that weak analysis comes from. If you want to use it as an indicator, sure, but then you have to dig deeper to understand and try to draw conclusions.

If you dig into it at all... Andersson's +/- largely comes down to baring the brunt of playing a shutdown role against other team's top lines with very little support. The forwards he has the largest shared TOI with are Backlund and Coleman and both of their scoring took a step back this year while the group of them were being deployed against the other team's top lines.

Also, when you look at his fancy stats, this last season was a massive departure from the rest of his career for starts. Andersson was not getting offensive zone starts anymore and instead was getting a pile of defensive zone starts. So not only are they playing against the other team's top lines but they are doing so in the defensive zone.

Simply put: Playing a shutdown role with a shutdown line on a low scoring team is not going to help your +/- stat. When the team got punished in games, Andersson would take the brunt of it in this one silly stat.

Oct 28 @VGK, -3 (L 5-0)
Dec 8 @DAL, -4 (L 6-2)
Feb 4 @TOR, -3 (L 6-3)
...

Dude was a punching bag that the Flames threw out to get beat on by the best scorers in the NHL with a very green D partner. When the team needed to tighten up the bench, Andersson just kept putting up bigger minutes.

28 minutes against the Sens
27 minutes against the Bruins, Wild, NYI, 'Canes
26 minutes against Canucks, NYI, Sabres, Blues, Avs

In the end, no, Andersson is not elite. He is a 28 year old top pair RHS defender who is on an amazing one year contract, can be extended for 8 more years. About 7 or 8 teams need this asset and only one is available.

Trying to pretend that he is less than that just makes one look foolish.

I don't understand bringing up the past years. He has not been the same player since the scooter accident.

He was a 1st pairing at one point, but unfortunately injuries changed things.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

all im seeing is that they should've traded him 2 years ago.

Two years ago? So after 3 years of a six year contract?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I don't understand bringing up the past years. He has not been the same player since the scooter accident.

He was a 1st pairing at one point, but unfortunately injuries changed things.

He cited the scooter accident year as his biggest atoi year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I do not believe he is a top pairing on a good team.

On Florida he would be their 4th best dman. You could make an argument he would be the #3 dman in Edmonton, a team with trash depth.

Sorry, in MY opinion, he is a second pairing dman.

Yeah, if you are David Staples.

[Bonded]

All I know is Rhett should be happy with a 2nd round pick when Andersson is traded. I never understand the multiple page tirades about a Flames player sucking haha