06-07-2023, 09:41 AM
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#11281
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
Disgusting and infuriating what the russians have done. Disgusting beyond words. This dam has been used as a WMD that has many consequences a certain WMD we all talk about would; potentially hundreds/thousands killed in a single mass event. An ecological disaster that kills thousands of animals and their habitats. A large land mass rendered uninhabitable. A precedent that now these kind of structures can be used as a weapon against civilians. Where is the "red line" for something like this?
Ukrainians socials are heartbreaking right now. Hundreds of people are trapped on their roofs in the Russian occupied parts of Kherson because russians refuse to evacuate them. The UA side of the river was evacuated. The ####ing russians won't let UA citizens leave. A bunch of live streams were being streamed a few hours ago of families trapped on roofs pleading for help and now they are off. I hope to god they got rescued somehow.
Last night there was a rally of support for Ukraine in Poppy Park on Memorial Drive. My roommates (whose home city is Nova Kakhovka) attended. Good show of support from the city, which was good to see. I asked if they noticed any russians among them. Said they didn't see or hear any. Strange, they must have been busy.
I sure hope the response from Western allies is swift and strong. Unshackling Ukraine from forcing them to fight with one arm tied behind it's back would be a good start. Send the long range missiles and let them unleash hell on military targets in russia. |
That’s absolutely horrific. This has to stop.
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06-07-2023, 10:56 AM
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#11282
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Franchise Player
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The US keeps warships in the South China Sea/Taiwan Straight.
I wonder if NATO would ever sail a few carrier battle groups into the Black Sea as a warning to the Kremlin. Some good old fashioned saber rattling.
A couple of these showing up on Russia's doorstep might give them pause
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06-07-2023, 11:58 AM
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#11283
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
It also takes away water from Crimea and wipes away their defensive structures. This doesn't change the width of the river significantly after the waters recede
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I think at this stage the Russians have written off Kherson so they know that water supply is gone in a few months anyway, this is an admission of defeat really, an admission that they dont have the forces to hold the Donbass and Kherson, if you know you are going to lose something any way then the minor strategic gain you get for a couple of months that comes when you wreck it is worth it
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06-07-2023, 01:11 PM
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#11284
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#1 Goaltender
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https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ected-u-s-says
Quote:
Administration officials “were encouraged by better-than-expected progress Monday, as Ukrainian units pushed through heavily mined areas to advance between five and 10 kilometers in some areas of the long front,” Washington Post columnist David Ignatius reported Tuesday. “That raised hopes that Ukrainian forces can keep thrusting toward Mariupol, Melitopol and other Russian-held places along the coast.”
Biden administration officials say the offensive began on Monday with a Ukrainian thrust south along multiple axes, Ignatius reported, echoing what we reported Monday.
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Also Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...on%20Wednesday.
Quote:
Oleksiy Danilov, Secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council, dismissed statements by Russian officials who have said the counteroffensive has already begun.
"All of this is not true. When all this will begin, it will be decided by our military," Danilov told Reuters in an interview. "When we start the counteroffensive, everyone will know about it, they will see it."
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Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe you thwarted the efforts by blowing the dam, maybe you didn't.
The daily tallies number however show Russia is already in deep trouble.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1666358108476563456
https://twitter.com/user/status/1666061981273432064
Those artillery numbers tell the story (these are numbers we saw back during the Irpin / Kharkiv offensive)
Last edited by Firebot; 06-07-2023 at 01:15 PM.
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06-07-2023, 01:22 PM
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#11285
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#1 Goaltender
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Of note, it's also believed the dam was blown very prematurely if it was used at any sort of military tactic (it really was more of a scorched earth tactic) to deter the counteroffensive. Russian troops were the ones in the area, they had not withdrawn, and there are multiple videos of them scrambling in flooded areas trying to withdraw on Telegram.
The dam was going to be blown up no matter what, as was planned based on Russians ensuring it was as full as possible in recent weeks. If it's to be blown up, its better now before the offensive actually starts occurring in this area where heavy machinery would have been underwater (if it is at all, as it was the most difficult area to do an offensive without a bridgehead).
Last edited by Firebot; 06-07-2023 at 01:24 PM.
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06-07-2023, 02:01 PM
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#11286
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
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If those numbers are anywhere close to true, this conflict is staggeringly big. The fact that this is happening in 2023 Europe is still unfathomable.
####ing orcs and their orc manager.
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06-07-2023, 02:06 PM
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#11287
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Franchise Player
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I don't know about some of those numbers, 314 jets destroyed?
I mean, I hope it's true but the numbers seem inflated.
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06-07-2023, 03:38 PM
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#11288
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks
I don't know about some of those numbers, 314 jets destroyed?
I mean, I hope it's true but the numbers seem inflated.
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These numbers are since the start of the war, and Russia lost a ton of jets in the first few days of the war (why you don't see them used nearly as much anymore). The numbers are believed to be close to accurate.
The number of jets downed has stayed fairly stagnant in recent months outside of a few recent oddball situations. Ukraine has 2 Patriot systems in Ukraine right now, one in Kyiv that made the news recently with the downing of the hypersonic missiles, and there is the other one donated by Germany that is apparently trolling close to the frontlines and said to be responsible for downing 5 jets in one day alone (it was initially believed that Russia was shooting its own planes out of fear, there's videos of each of these from Russian sources in Russian controlled land).
https://www.newsweek.com/did-us-patr...russia-1801489
Oryx has 77 jets visually confirmed (aka visually verifiable).
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...ring-2022.html
Ukraine has been visually confirmed to have lost 62 jets.
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06-08-2023, 01:13 PM
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#11289
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#1 Goaltender
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The counteroffensive (outside of earlier probing attacks) or at least a significant push with seems to have started last night. Results are...mixed. There is a drone video of multiple Leopards being destroyed from earlier today that were part of a staging area behind front lines and became sitting ducks to artillery. At least 3 destroyed in a convoy. So we have official multiple confirmed Leopard losses now.
Unfortunately it's a real video, and a pretty indicative that offensives are usually much tougher then defense.
Ukraine also seems to be making its push in on Russia's best defended lines, notably the front towards Tokmak and Melitopol. Gaining back Melitopol is crucial and the most obvious objective, but also the toughest one. There is also another front on the Bakhmut side as well as the eastern front, however those seem to not be the main battles.
The video is certainly a reminder that this won't be easy. Note that there is full radio silence from the Ukrainian side right now, as such the only info we are getting are from Russian sources (most of it bogus)
Last edited by Firebot; 06-08-2023 at 01:26 PM.
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06-08-2023, 02:11 PM
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#11294
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
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The whole thing is a strategic disaster for Russia. I think their hope was to catch Ukrainian troops crossing on the 4th front but blew it too early. This destroys all Russia's defensive fortifications + a good chunk of Russian troops in the area like you say, but also cuts off almost all of the canals that feed water to Crimea. Worse yet from a military standpoint, in a month's time after the banks finally dry out, the water levels in the river will have dropped to a level that will allow easy crossing by Ukrainian troops widening possible crossing points to the entire 240KM length of the river.
Kherson Oblast just become undefendable for Russia after this. Which is good. Just it'll come at a cost of a gigantic humanitarian disaster, and $1Trillion+ in economic and infrastructure damage that will basically making more than 1/4 of Ukraine's airable land unusable for 5 or more years.
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06-08-2023, 02:11 PM
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#11295
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
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Seeing videos like this are heartbreaking on a lot of levels. I am very pro Ukraine on this matter but I sometimes really wonder if we are getting the full story from the media.
There is an insane amount of pro Ukrainian footage, news stories, heroics and more. I can't even count how many stories I have read about the imminent collapse of the Russian military, how they are so stupid, infighting, drunk all the time, killing each other with infighting, unorganized and more.
It's made to be that Russia is nothing more than an army full of morons and crazy people doing awful things, and that may be true but there is another side.
The fact that Russia still has the capability to launch such severe attacks with drone's and is taking out Lepoards, NATO trained troops with the latest and greatest weaponry in some ways is also heartbreaking.
This battle will continue and it will be incredibly difficult and deadly for everybody involved. I really hope the west and NATO know what they are doing with all this dithering. Anything short of Russian losing 100%, giving up occupied territory and fleeing Ukraine may be considered a loss.
If all the west achieves is millions displaced, a few million injured, killed and an entire country destroyed only for Putin to maintain some capacity and territory in Ukraine, than what was the point? Why didn't we arm Ukraine with everything earlier, started training earlier.
I just hope good prevails in this thing but sometimes I wonder if we are being fed a little bit of BS from government and media types about doing all we can to help the Ukrainian people.
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06-08-2023, 03:11 PM
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#11297
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N/A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast_Man
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The link didn't work for me, but I looked up the author and what I think you were aiming to share is a good post.
https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/stat...050327553?s=20
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06-08-2023, 03:18 PM
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#11298
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000
This battle will continue and it will be incredibly difficult and deadly for everybody involved. I really hope the west and NATO know what they are doing with all this dithering. Anything short of Russian losing 100%, giving up occupied territory and fleeing Ukraine may be considered a loss.
If all the west achieves is millions displaced, a few million injured, killed and an entire country destroyed only for Putin to maintain some capacity and territory in Ukraine, than what was the point? Why didn't we arm Ukraine with everything earlier, started training earlier.
I just hope good prevails in this thing but sometimes I wonder if we are being fed a little bit of BS from government and media types about doing all we can to help the Ukrainian people.
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My own personal opinion is that NATO is going to get dragged into this kicking and screaming at some point, whether they like it or not. To me a ####ing dam being blown up and thousands of people flooded is as WMD-like as it gets. Hundreds/thousands potentially killed. Thousands more homeless. Entire vast regions and eco-systems destroyed. Uninhabitable regions for a long time. And yet the simple "condemnations" and utter silence from quite a few leader is disgustingly dissapointing. A man-made human catastrophe on a massive WMD-scale, and the silence from many is....deafening.
IMO West had the chance to nip this in the bud leading up to the war and could have used the excuse of special " training" or whatever you want to call it. Russia would have never attacked in the first place. It would have been tense, it would have been standoff-ish. But ultimately we are way past that point now and instead get to watch Ukrainians get butchered and the country literally ripped apart and destroyed, all in high def 4k videos.
We are NOT doing all we can to help Ukraine. Absolutely not. There is a still fear amongst some leaders of EsCalATinG, although russia is permitted to do that with every drone stroke, every missle attack, every forced deportation and now a catastrophic dam explosion bordering on WMD destruction. The West been entirely reactionary most of the time and not enough proactive. All under the guise of " Well, Ukraine isn't in NATO, so this is as far we go. BTW, don't attack russia in their land, because we don't want to get dragged in". Makes sense...until you consider this is the prequel to a much larger conflict if Russia isn't stopped HERE and NOW, and stopped hard with the help of the rest of Europe and allies.
I'm ranting a bit because this is all very personal for myself and those in my household. Nova Kakhokva is literally the home of the 2 refugees living with me. My poor wife cries much of the day watching this #### on socials. Ever seen people live-stream their fate from a roof as water surrounds them and shelling goes off in the background because the russians are STILL shooting at them? It ain't pretty. I dunno, just sick of knowing that certain entities out there have the power to stop this and make sure it never happens again, but...won't. Or can't? Who knows. We have to do it their way I guess. The slow way.
/rant
Anyways, had to get that out of me. Slava Ukraini. #### russia.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 06-08-2023 at 03:21 PM.
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06-08-2023, 03:34 PM
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#11299
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary
Exp: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadGame
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Thank you!
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06-08-2023, 03:35 PM
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#11300
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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There is one thing we know for sure at this point, the Ukrainians are well led and have very good intel, they haven't ever wasted their troops or done much rashly, even when it looked like they were making a mistake at Bakhmut it turned out it was costing the Russians immeasurably more and really wasnt a mistake even though it was grim and costly for the UA, no they will lose troops and tanks in an advance, that is unavoidable, but the final outcome is pretty well without doubt at this point, the better army will prevail and that aint the orcs
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