The New American Politics thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Buster

Reason has had great coverage of the election (which is no surprise).

http://reason.com/archives/2016/09/0...y-clinton-a-fr

Reason is corporatist propaganda, always has been corporatist propaganda, and will continue to be corporatist propaganda. The primary reason we are still having debates on some very important issues in this country is because of the obfuscation that comes from the likes of the Reason Foundation. From climate science denial to blaming campus rape on the victims, Reason is a deplorable virtual bird cage liner.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by fatso

People need to stop saying things like "if I did what Clinton did, I'd be in jail" and "Hillary is an inveterate liar". It's not true and not productive.

The reality is that Trump shouldn't even be allowed on the debate stage with her. Regardless of his views, he has zero political experience or service, is intentionally uninformed, and cannot formulate a coherent thought. It's an absolute joke that he is even a candidate, let alone won his party's nomination.

There may be plenty of reasons to dislike Hillary based on her public service record, but trying to engineer that they're equally (or close to equally) bad choices is disingenuous at best.

But she is an inveterate liar, and other people ARE in jail for being loose with classified information.

That doesn't prevent you from still making the case that Hillary is better than Trump.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by New Era

Reason is corporatist propaganda, always has been corporatist propaganda, and will continue to be corporatist propaganda. The primary reason we are still having debates on some very important issues in this country is because of the obfuscation that comes from the likes of the Reason Foundation. From climate science denial to blaming campus rape on the victims, Reason is a deplorable virtual bird cage liner.

Everything is propaganda.

I wrote a PhD thesis on it once.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Buster

Everything is propaganda.

I wrote a PhD thesis on it once.

You have a PhD?

[troutman]

Ann Coulter gets ROASTED:

https://www.facebook.com/Vulture/vid...c_ref=NEWSFEED

Ouch, even Peyton Manning piled on.

[Izzle]

Lol, the second someone invokes their IQ (in this case a PhD thesis) is when you know they've lost. Straight out of the Troll 101 textbook.

Hmmm... he could have written a "PhD" thesis. I seriously doubt it'd get published.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by troutman

Ann Coulter gets ROASTED:

https://www.facebook.com/Vulture/vid...c_ref=NEWSFEED

Ouch, even Peyton Manning piled on.

Manning's might have been the best.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Buster

Everything is propaganda.

I wrote a PhD thesis on it once.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The more I think about this election, the more it looks like a chance for a do-over for the 2000 election. Right now there's moderate, centrist Democrat in office (like 2000), with another centrist looking to replace him and continue many of the policies (like 2000), but is viewed as slimy and untrustworthy (like 2000). The GOP has nominated someone born into wealth (like 2000), who is either remarkably stupid or remarkably disinterested in doing the job (like 2000), and who will likely be a puppet to take the majority of the heat, while the scheming cabinet and Congress does all the dirty work (like 2000). The media is doing a terrible job covering this, excusing the stupid candidate's stupidity as something folksy or charming (like 2000), while over blowing every little thing about the candidate who wants to continue the incumbent policies (like 2000). The desperation for a horse race is apparent (like 2000), because the ad buys aren't going to happen in a blowout (like....well every election lol)

So will Americans make the same mistake twice and set themselves back another 15-20 years? We'll see. But it has gotten pretty scary how similar these two races are. Another way of looking at this election is it's a referendum on which of the 21st century Presidents people want to see more of: George W. Bush (Trump) or Barack Obama (Hillary).

[peter12]

Originally Posted by fatso

People need to stop saying things like "if I did what Clinton did, I'd be in jail" and "Hillary is an inveterate liar". It's not true and not productive.

The reality is that Trump shouldn't even be allowed on the debate stage with her. Regardless of his views, he has zero political experience or service, is intentionally uninformed, and cannot formulate a coherent thought. It's an absolute joke that he is even a candidate, let alone won his party's nomination.

There may be plenty of reasons to dislike Hillary based on her public service record, but trying to engineer that they're equally (or close to equally) bad choices is disingenuous at best.

She is an inveterate liar. He should be allowed on the debate stage with her.

People aren't thinking straight at all in this thread.

It's a display of the most crude moral absolutism. One can despise Trump - I do - and still despise Clinton. One does not excuse the other. Sure, America will be in a bad place if Trump wins, but I don't think it can take more of the same from Clinton either.

It's a very bad election for American democracy.

[TheoFleury]

Bush was a lot of things but comparing him to Trump is unfair. Trump is a joke compared to Bush even though he was one of the worst presidents in history

[Drak]

Originally Posted by peter12

She is an inveterate liar. He should be allowed on the debate stage with her.

People aren't thinking straight at all in this thread.

It's a display of the most crude moral absolutism. One can despise Trump - I do - and still despise Clinton. One does not excuse the other. Sure, America will be in a bad place if Trump wins, but I don't think it can take more of the same from Clinton either.

It's a very bad election for American democracy.

Why would America be in a bad place with Clinton, continuing similar policies to Obama? Please explain. Right now, the USA is doing pretty well.

It's been pointed out that your equivalency comparing Clinton to Trump and throwing them into the same basket is false. Yes you can despise both. But Trump would be utterly disastrous.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Bush was a lot of things but comparing him to Trump is unfair. Trump is a joke compared to Bush even though he was one of the worst presidents in history

I'm waiting to hear how Gerald Ford and Eisenhower were essentially Trump too. Because every Republican that ever lived is trash.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Bush was a lot of things but comparing him to Trump is unfair. Trump is a joke compared to Bush even though he was one of the worst presidents in history

The only difference between the two is Bush had enough tact to look and act the part, because when you went in depth to anything he wanted to do it was as big a joke as what Trump wants to do. That Trump can't even fake his way through this is a pretty sad statement, especially since he would probably win if he could fake it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fatso

People need to stop saying things like "if I did what Clinton did, I'd be in jail" and "Hillary is an inveterate liar". It's not true and not productive.

The reality is that Trump shouldn't even be allowed on the debate stage with her. Regardless of his views, he has zero political experience or service, is intentionally uninformed, and cannot formulate a coherent thought. It's an absolute joke that he is even a candidate, let alone won his party's nomination.

There may be plenty of reasons to dislike Hillary based on her public service record, but trying to engineer that they're equally (or close to equally) bad choices is disingenuous at best.

Yep. Both are horrible candidates, but one should have been completely unelectable at any level. He shouldn't be where he is right now, not even close.

I'd personally be concerned if he was even on the campaign team of the GOP candidate, let alone....be it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Drak

Why would America be in a bad place with Clinton, continuing similar policies to Obama? Please explain. Right now, the USA is doing pretty well.

It's been pointed out that your equivalency comparing Clinton to Trump and throwing them into the same basket is false. Yes you can despise both. But Trump would be utterly disastrous.

I've never said they are equivalent. I don't think that I have ever done a direct comparison.

I am totally against Trump, but quite sympathetic to Trumpism. The U.S. has a significant, and growing problem with economic inequality, and the collapse of certain social groups. This has gotten worse under the Obama administration, and it will continue to get worse under Clinton.

Caveat: Trump would do nothing to stop it. He is an ignorant, impulsive buffoon.

The reason for this is that the Democrats are no longer the party of the blue-collar middle-class but the party of the elite. You can see this in Clinton's fundraising strategy, her public appearances, and her close ties to Silicon Valley and Wall Street.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The only difference between the two is Bush had enough tact to look and act the part, because when you went in depth to anything he wanted to do it was as big a joke as what Trump wants to do. That Trump can't even fake his way through this is a pretty sad statement, especially since he would probably win if he could fake it.

I would feel much more comfortable with Bush in for a third term than I would with that orange circus act. Bush wasn't as bad as the left says he was but he was still terrible. Trump is on a whole other level.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I would feel much more comfortable with Bush in for a third term than I would with that orange circus act. Bush wasn't as bad as the left says he was but he was still terrible. Trump is on a whole other level.

The point you're missing is it wasn't Bush himself that was really terrible. He did nothing as POTUS, Cheney was in control of that White House and pretty much everyone knows it. And it'll be the same with Trump, which is why his supporters are morons for not seeing they're actually supporting the same GOP establishment they claim to hate. Pence and company will handle all of the policy, while Trump will stand in front of Mission Accomplished banners and get trashed by late night TV.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've never said they are equivalent. I don't think that I have ever done a direct comparison.

I am totally against Trump, but quite sympathetic to Trumpism. The U.S. has a significant, and growing problem with economic inequality, and the collapse of certain social groups. This has gotten worse under the Obama administration, and it will continue to get worse under Clinton.

Caveat: Trump would do nothing to stop it. He is an ignorant, impulsive buffoon.

The reason for this is that the Democrats are no longer the party of the blue-collar middle-class but the party of the elite. You can see this in Clinton's fundraising strategy, her public appearances, and her close ties to Silicon Valley and Wall Street.

Yah you did

Sure, America will be in a bad place if Trump wins, but I don't think it can take more of the same from Clinton either.

And Conservatives want to continue trickle down Raygunomics. Cutting taxes for the 1 percent instead of the middle class. That is the disparity between the middle class which is now the working poor, over the rich elite.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

The reason for this is that the Democrats are no longer the party of the blue-collar middle-class but the party of the elite. You can see this in Clinton's fundraising strategy, her public appearances, and her close ties to Silicon Valley and Wall Street.

There is no party of the working class anymore. Libertarians would eliminate regulations so there'd be no such thing as a minimum wage, and the Greens would kill the economy in pursuit of their agenda. The Democrats at least have a good economic record the last two Presidents.