2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[RoughRiderRowdy]

First of all there is about a 0.1% chance tavares signs here. It just isnt happening. Lots of extremely delusional posters on here. Second of all, if the flames want to take the next step as a perrenial playoff team we need to add scoring. Two top 6 wingers. Backlund and frolik are excellent 3rd line two way players. If we trade from a position of strength (defencemen/d man prospects) i think we can get at least one top 6 forward. Toronto, Carolina, Islanders, i see as teams that have a wealth of scoring but may need some help on the back end. Hopefully we can fill another top 6 spot with a UFA.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Funny part is the teams have had a bit of a similar build path. Jets have done a better job of being patient, and getting young guys in on the bottom 6 / bottom pairing but it's pretty close.

There were 4 direct comparable points where the teams paths diverged though.

2012 Draft: Gillies vs. Hellebuck (Gillies was more heralded at a younger age, but Hellebuck developed better)
2014 Draft: Bennett vs. Ehlers (Clear win for the Jets)
2015 Draft: Hamilton vs. Connor (This one is close to a wash but edge to Jets due to ELC value)
2016 Draft: Laine vs. Tkachuk (Jets win the lottery and get an elite goal scorer)

The Ehlers/Laine vs. Bennett/Tkachuk gap is the biggest difference IMO. Those two drafts are the reason the Flames require a true top line forward still, while the Jets do not.

Outside of that the drafting since 2010 is pretty close.

Jets: Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Copp, Roslevic

Flames: Gaudreau, Monahan, Jankowski, Kulak, Ferland

What the Flames need to do now though is have some patience and hope guys like Mangiapane, Dube, Valimaki, Andersson, Phillips, Kylington, and Fox continue to develop and can fill gaps like guys like Copp, Connor, Roselvic were able to do for the Jets this year.

Much like everyone wanted the Jets to blow it up last year the Flames need to have similar patience this year and let the process and young prospects come in an make a difference.

The biggest thing for the Jets is that they mash their 1st round picks right out of the park. It also helps that they usually end up with at least one other solid NHLer from each draft to go along with the mashed 1st rounder.

2011 - Schiefele 7th OA, Lowry 67th OA
2012 - Trouba 9th OA, Hellebuyck 130th OA
2013 - Morrissey 13th OA, Copp 104th OA
2014 - Ehlers 9th OA
2015 - Connor 17th OA, Roslovic 25th OA
2016 - Laine 2nd OA


Even their 2017 1st rounder Vesalainen (24th OA) was the highest scoring U20 in a Finnish men's league last year and will likely come over and own the NHL.

Yeah, they drafted top 10 or 15 a lot, but they never missed, and they also did a good job at finding depth deeper in the draft too.

That Laine lottery win though was such a lucky break. Not often you get to add a sub 20 year old 40 goal scorer to your roster on an ELC.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

$7.5 is a lot for a "defensive shutdown veteran".

Not when that defensive shutdown veteran is putting up 60+ points. Kesler just had a 14 point season, and he's making 7M until he's 37. Backes had 33 points and he's making 6M until he's 37 as well. Forgetting Kopitar's massive resurgence now, he was a 70 point defensive shutdown center when he signed 10M.

Pominville ($5,600,000), Bogosian ($5,142,857), Moulson ($5,000,000). That's 15M+ off the books, for what amounts to a 15 goal third line right winger. Bogosian was on IR and Moulson buried. That's where the money comes to re-sign Dahlin and Mittelstadt. Not their second leading scorer and best defensive forward.

They only have Eichel, O'Reilly, Okposo and Ristolainen signed by the time Dahlin needs to be re-upped.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The biggest thing for the Jets is that they mash their 1st round picks right out of the park. It also helps that they usually end up with at least one other solid NHLer from each draft to go along with the mashed 1st rounder.

2011 - Schiefele 7th OA, Lowry 67th OA
2012 - Trouba 9th OA, Hellebuyck 130th OA
2013 - Morrissey 13th OA, Copp 104th OA
2014 - Ehlers 9th OA
2015 - Connor 17th OA, Roslovic 25th OA
2016 - Laine 2nd OA


Even their 2017 1st rounder Vesalainen (24th OA) was the highest scoring U20 in a Finnish men's league last year and will likely come over and own the NHL.

Yeah, they drafted top 10 or 15 a lot, but they never missed, and they also did a good job at finding depth deeper in the draft too.

That Laine lottery win though was such a lucky break. Not often you get to add a sub 20 year old 40 goal scorer to your roster on an ELC.

Great write up- they also have Sami Niku on the way as well. 7th round pick in 2009 who just put up 54 points in 76 games on their farm team while winning AHL defenseman of they year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Not when that defensive shutdown veteran is putting up 60+ points. Kesler just had a 14 point season, and he's making 7M until he's 37. Backes had 33 points and he's making 6M until he's 37 as well. Forgetting Kopitar's massive resurgence now, he was a 70 point defensive shutdown center when he signed 10M.

Pominville ($5,600,000), Bogosian ($5,142,857), Moulson ($5,000,000). That's 15M+ off the books, for what amounts to a 15 goal third line right winger. Bogosian was on IR and Moulson buried. That's where the money comes to re-sign Dahlin and Mittelstadt. Not their second leading scorer and best defensive forward.

Yeah, I don't understand what is baffling so many people about ROR, or how some don't see how his addition would improve our forward core.

20+ goal 60 point two way center who is a top 5 face off man in the entire league, and still just 27 years old.

I've said it in here a bunch of times now:

He is like a hybrid of Monahan and Backlund. Just call him Ryan O'Monalund

He would give us a one-two punch up the middle offensively with he and Monahan
He would give us a one-two punch up the middle defensively with he and Backlund

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

But it's not the same thing as on the Island.

Vancouver has an elite goal scoring winger. They have a very good, defensively responsible centre who can help shoulder the load, especially defensively.

If it comes down to Calgary or Vancouver the smart money would be on Vancouver.

I don't think it's likely either, but your comment about no player has picked Vancouver because of the view is dumb.

While Boeser showed this season that he can score, it's one season, there needs to be consistency before you can call him Elite.
Horvat may never be more than a 40-50 point 2nd/3rd line center.

The Flames have a bonafide "Elite" winger in Gaudreau, and Tkachuk has just as much promise as Boeser to be an "Elite" Winger as well.

As for Centers, I put Monahan and Backlund ahead of Horvat, both Offensively, and Defensively, and Jankowski looks like he can be a 20+ goal scorer as well as very defensively responsible.

So, if your argument is that the Canucks have 1 "Elite" forward for Tavares to play with, and a "very good" 2nd line center to back him up, as a Flames fan, I raise you an "Elite" forward and 2 "Very Good" Centers.

You're crazy to think Vancouvers roster is more attractive than the Flames to a player who is looking to win.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

But it's not the same thing as on the Island.

Vancouver has an elite goal scoring winger. They have a very good, defensively responsible centre who can help shoulder the load, especially defensively.

If it comes down to Calgary or Vancouver the smart money would be on Vancouver.

I don't think it's likely either, but your comment about no player has picked Vancouver because of the view is dumb.

Give me a break. Who is their elite scoring winger? Boeser? The kid that had a red hot shootng % and was alate first round pick? A larger sample size is needed before we call him an elite scoring winger.

Has Horvat proven to be an elite defensive centre more than say Backlund?


Vancouver has the $15M cap space but thst is it. The team is not proven enough for a guy like Tavares to choose.

Calgary is likely not an option either but at least their core is more established, they have an elite D pairing, and also have one of Tavares close friends on the roster.

The Flames biggest benefit is the core veingmsjnged long term under $7M for the highest cap hit. Calgary is likely going to get Tkachuk in at thst 6-6.75 range long term and have the ability to offer a player like Tavares 10-12 per year.

If the rumor Rasta said is true (he wants to play in Canada) then the Flames likely have a legit solid shot. If that is not the case then the Flames will likely not be in the top 10 destinations.

[Roof-Daddy]

Did someone just say that the Canucks would be a more attractive destination for Tavares than Calgary would be because of their roster?

Because of their ROSTER?

Hahaha

Johnny Gaudreau by himself trumps the entire Vancouver roster and it's not even close, as far as attractive pieces for Tavares to play with goes. Tavares has NEVER played with a winger on his line as good as Johnny in his entire career so far.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Sedins are the only big money contracts ending for the Canucks this year and they didn't have much cap space to spare this season (they ended the season over the cap into LTIR space).

Baertschi, Granlund, Virtanen, Stecher, and Pouliot are all RFAs who'll be looking for raises.

With the way everything has gone for Kane in San Jose, I'll be very surprised if he doesn't re-sign there, but if he were to go to Vancouver, he'll almost-certainly take up the cap space left by one of the Sedins, and possibly a little more.


Even if the cap goes up by $5 million, the raises for their five RFAs are going to eat up most of that increase. If Kane signs for $7 million, that eats up the cap space gained by Daniel's retirement. That would leave them a little over $7 million to sign Tavares, which isn't likely to get it done.

From that list of RFA's you could walk away from more than a couple. Also, trading Tanev is a possibility among many other options I'm sure they have at hand.

Again, realistically I don't think the Canucks are players here, all I'm saying is they shouldn't be Ignored. They have the cards to play. It's a desirable place to live and they aren't far away from turning it around.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TOfan

From that list of RFA's you could walk away from more than a couple. Also, trading Tanev is a possibility among many other options I'm sure they have at hand.

Again, realistically I don't think the Canucks are players here, all I'm saying is they shouldn't be Ignored. They have the cards to play. It's a desirable place to live and they aren't far away from turning it around.

You don’t think the Canucks are players but you’ve argued they are for multiple posts, which is it?

Yes Vancouver is a desirable place to live.

No there’s no reason to think the Canucks aren’t far from turning it around. They are several years behind the Flames in terms of rebuilding. They are nowhere near ready to contend. The Flames are a Tavares away from being serious, serious contenders. The Canucks are not.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by TOfan

It's a desirable place to live and they aren't far away from turning it around.

Yes, they are. That's where you're wrong in all of this... which is the biggest factor in where someone like Tavares is going to be looking to sign. He's just spent years on a defensively inept team, and in this very post you just mentioned Vancouver may trade their best defensemen as part of their early rebuild.

They have a dismal back-end moving forward. That's a huge key in "turning it around" that they're not even close to beginning to address.

It makes them go from a remote chance of attracting a UFA like this to pretty much zero.

[Vinny01]

Let’s say the “rumor” is true that Tavares wants to play in Canada.

I think right away we can scratch Edmonton off the list. McDavid, Draisailt, Nuge take up $27M in cap there is no way they are looking to add another $10+M forward.

Winnipeg doesn’t feel like a team that is going to go all in but if they can make the cap work they are an extremely attractive destination if winning is a top priority. Laine is going to need a payday in a year but he rivals (likely trumps) Gaudreau as the best winger in Canada for JT to ply with. Not sure their cap situation and too lazy to look it up.

Toronto is the rumored spot. They have cap space this summer but have massive contracts in Matthews and Marner coming up. They also have a huge hole on the blueline. They feel like the likeliest place in Canada for him to go conisering the team is close to winning and he is from the area. Can they fit it all in with Matthews needing a similar sized deal in a year.

Ottawa has to worry about Karlsson so won’t be a factor for JT

Vancouver likely takes a run but the roster is not good enough. Bottom 6 team 4 of the last 5 years doubtful that is where Tavares wants to go

The Habs will be all in. I think their roster has too many holes and not enough good young talent in place.

Flames likely take a big run. They have some nice young pieces signed long term, up and down team coming out of a rebuild. Arena issue, another new coach.

Assuming every Canadian team takes a run at him I would put the Flames 3rd after Toronto and Winnipeg as being a desirable place to play in regards to winning.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Give me a break. Who is their elite scoring winger? Boeser? The kid that had a red hot shootng % and was alate first round pick? A larger sample size is needed before we call him an elite scoring winger.

Has Horvat proven to be an elite defensive centre more than say Backlund?

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the two teams and their chances of getting Tavares, but come on, take off your homer glasses.

Boeser put up more goals and points in 62 games this season than Bennett did in his last 2 seasons, yet we are all still adamant that Bennett will develop into a top6 forward. Boeser puts up insane rookie numbers yet... it's unsustainable and the sample size is too small

Give credit where credit is due. Your hypocrisy is making the fanbase look bad.

[Roof-Daddy]

I don;t understand how anybody could say definitively that the Canucks are "close to turning it around".

They have some nice young pieces like Boeser, Horvat and likely Pettersson.

But their 2nd and 3rd leading scorers were the 36 year old Sedin's who just retired. Their 5th leading scorer was a 33 year old Vanek who they traded away at the deadline and only played 61 games for them.

Pettersson and Gaudette will have to be the 2nd coming of Forsberg and Sakic for the team to turn anything around anytime soon.

[Erick Estrada]

I think the Canucks could be players for Tvares but not because of the city or team but because the Sedins retirement leaves them a big chunk of cap room. The only way they land him though is if they vastly overpay. I don't think the Flames could match what the Canucks would offer and I don't think either team are on his list of preferred destinations as I can see him staying out east.

[jaikorven]

Well if rumors are true in that he wants to play in Canada and that he wants to stay out east, then he is going to TO...end of story because the Habs are a mess.

None of us know the true story, either way, so I guess we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the two teams and their chances of getting Tavares, but come on, take off your homer glasses.

Boeser put up more goals and points in 62 games this season than Bennett did in his last 2 seasons, yet we are all still adamant that Bennett will develop into a top6 forward. Boeser puts up insane rookie numbers yet... it's unsustainable and the sample size is too small

Give credit where credit is due. Your hypocrisy is making the fanbase look bad.

Sorry bud but for a guy taken 25th in the draft I need to see more than one season before I am willing to call him an elite scoring winger.

If he comes back next year and gets 30 again then I will gladly concede that.

Where a guy is drafted surely comes into play. The fact Bennett is not a star player at 21 has people calling him an outright bust because he was taken 4th overall.

If Boeser was a consensus top pick and then performed at this level I would say he is an elite scoring winger (like I say about Laine). Since he was a later pick he needs to show me one more time before i am convinced.

Maybe Tavares is convinced after 62 games?

Also Bennett into a top 6 forward is different than calling Boeser an elite scoring winger.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sorry bud but for a guy taken 25th in the draft I need to see more than one season before I am willing to call him an elite scoring winger.

If he comes back next year and gets 30 again then I will gladly concede that.

Where a guy is drafted surely comes into play. The fact Bennett is not a star player at 21 has people calling him an outright bust because he was taken 4th overall.

If Boeser was a consensus top pick and then performed at this level I would say he is an elite scoring winger (like I say about Laine). Since he was a later pick he needs to show me one more time before i am convinced.

Maybe Tavares is convinced after 62 games?

Also Bennett into a top 6 forward is different than calling Boeser an elite scoring winger.

Lets say you're right and draft position does matter, what about Johnny? He was drafted in the 4th round, so do we need to wait 4times as long as someone drafted in the 1st round before we call him elite?
He was named the second coming of christ after his rookie season, how come there weren't too many people on this board saying we should wait another few seasons before we call him elite?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the two teams and their chances of getting Tavares, but come on, take off your homer glasses.

Boeser put up more goals and points in 62 games this season than Bennett did in his last 2 seasons, yet we are all still adamant that Bennett will develop into a top6 forward. Boeser puts up insane rookie numbers yet... it's unsustainable and the sample size is too small

Give credit where credit is due. Your hypocrisy is making the fanbase look bad.

I don't think that's true anymore. Boeser looks like a much better point producer than Bennett at this point though. I don't think anyone would deny that.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Lets say you're right and draft position does matter, what about Johnny? He was drafted in the 4th round, so do we need to wait 4times as long as someone drafted in the 1st round before we call him elite?
He was named the second coming of christ after his rookie season, how come there weren't too many people on this board saying we should wait another few seasons before we call him elite?

This is a trade speculation thread. Can you cry about your being upset Flames fans aren't giving a Canuck player enough credit elsewhere? Maybe the Canucks board?